Cma Nhb

[madlilpimp]

Hey guys
i was looking at the rules for most no holds barred tournaments. Then i got the idea to make up rules of my own for a tournament that would be favourable to chinese martial arts with alot more action goin goin on.

If its too lengthy just read article 5, 7 and 8.
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My fighting tournament official rules
Article1
All bouts will be heldin an approved ring or cage

Article2
Compulsory equipment: competitors must wear a groin guard, gum shieled and gloves
All competitors will wear specially designed protective goggles.
Clothing: competitors can wear any of the following vale tudo or wrestling shorts, GI, kickboxing trousers or thai boxing shorts.
No jewellery or other pieces of body adornment are allowed.
Neoprene or elastic joint supports may be worn.
All footwear is prohibited.
The referee will check all supports and clothing.

Article3
Weight Categories
Featherweights - Up to 144.9 lbs. (up to 65.9 kg)
Lightweights - Up to 154.9 lbs. (up to 70.3 kg.)
Welterweights - 155 - 169.9 lbs. (70.3 - 77.1 kg)
Middleweights - 170 - 184.9 lbs. (77.1 - 83.9 kg)
Heavyweights - 185 - 204.9 lbs. (92.9 -83.9 kg.)
SuperHeavyweights - 205 lbs. and up (93 kg and up)
All weigh ins will be conductedthe day or the day before the fight.

Article4
Competitors must not apply any substances to their bodies including oils, vaseline creams, muscle rubs, hair products etc.
The use of steroids is prohibited.

Article5
Duration of rounds: matches are held over 5 two minutes rounds, with a 1 minute break between rounds.
Special matches can be held over more rounds.

Article6
Ways to end a fight
Knockout
An opponent is knocked unconcious. The three knock down rulelapplies.
Submission
A fighter taps with his hand or foot to signal his surrender. A fighter can also submit verbally.
Corner throws in towel
**There will be special rules matches where grappling will be allowed, however you wil not be able to win by submission you will have to win either by knockout or points.

Referee Stopage
When a fighter is unable to defend himself or is being dominated. The referee has the power to stop the fight at any time.
End of regulation time
The fight will be decided by the 3 judges.
Doctor Stoppage
Disqualification

Article7
Illegal techniques: the following are illegal
1 Strikes to the groin
2 No fishhooking to the mouth
3 No hair pulling
4 No spitting
5 No bitting
6 No ear pulling
7 No twsiting of the neck or head.

Article8
All techniques and strikes that are not mentioned in article 7 are legal.
This includes joint strikes, strikes to the back of the head, strikes to the neck, knees and kicks to a downed opponent, use of elbows, all takedowns and throws allowed, submission holds, small joint manipulation, head butts etc

Article9
Rules
All matches are full contact
the referee can restart the action from standing position
The referees instructions must be adhered to at all times
the referee can disqualify a fighter
The referee can stop a match at any timne to pause the action
All decisions are final
Gum shields must remain in the mouth at all times
All competitors must have reasonably short toe and fingernails.
The referee can stop a fight if he feels a fighter is taking too much damage
There will be a doctor accompanied ny nursres for every fight.

Article9
judges scoring
judges will score according to the following criteria
Skill in technique
Striking offence and defence
Grappling offence and defence
Consistency
Strength and Stamina
Each round will be scored using the 10 point Must system of scoring.

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[yenhoi]

Article 7 seems to take all of CMA's teeth away, how is this favorable?

[Xebsball]

"Article1
All bouts will be heldin an approved ring or cage"

Since its a CMA thing, should be in a Lei Tai.


"Article2
Compulsory equipment: competitors must wear a groin guard, gum shieled and gloves"

Why gloves if CMA was mostly developed in a context of bare hands?

"Clothing: competitors can wear any of the following vale tudo or wrestling shorts, GI, kickboxing trousers or thai boxing shorts."

Why cant i wear silk pijamas??

"All footwear is prohibited."

I train with shoes, why should i remove them to fight??

[madlilpimp]

Well the rounds are short and fast so wouldnt be practical to grapple. Also you can strike to the back of the head and kick/punch/elbow a downed opponent so it wouldnt be a good idea to be on the ground.

[Souljah]

i'd say you have too much time on your hands.....

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by madlilpimp
Well the rounds are short and fast so wouldnt be practical to grapple.

If it wouldn't be 'practical' to grapple, why bother making it illegal? If it's not practical, fighters won't do it, because the ones that do will get beaten.

[Chang Style Novice]

This thread got me to thinkin' (dangerous, so stand back.)

In a lot of the cma vs. mma threads, the idea has been bandied about that for cma guys to successfully ocmpete in the mma format, they'd have to alter their training to the degree that they'd essentially no longer be cma fighters, but mma fighters. So, what happens if we turn that idea on its head?

To wit: suppose John Marsh or Carlos Newton or somebody got it into their head to compete in San Shou? Would they be alright the way they are, or would they have to change their training to the degree that they'd essentially no longer be mma guys but san shou guys? Regardless of your conclusion in reference to this question, what further implications does your conclusion have with respect to the differences (technical and utile) of san shou (which for the sake of arguement we will here consider to be the 'ideal' fighting form of cma) and mma?

I hope that last paragraph wasn't too convoluted to understand.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
This thread got me to thinkin' (dangerous, so stand back.)

In a lot of the cma vs. mma threads, the idea has been bandied about that for cma guys to successfully ocmpete in the mma format, they'd have to alter their training to the degree that they'd essentially no longer be cma fighters, but mma fighters.

I don't know that that's been said all that often. Certainly, I wouldn't say it.

MMA is a format, not a style. When someone asks me what I study, I don't say "mixed martial arts", I say "I study catch wrestling, and I box a little."

A dedicated CMA practitioner could, indeed, enter a MMA competition and do well. First, they would have to A) learn to defend against a takedown, and B) learn to escape from inferior positions on the ground, in order to stand back up.

In order to really do A&B, he'd have to train with practitioners of other styles. Because in order to learn to defend against a takedown and escape from inferior positions on the ground, you have to train it with someone who's good at takedowns, and good at maintaining position on the ground. And I don't think there are any CMA styles that are good at either of those things (possibly Shuia Chiao in the case of takedowns.) But just because he trains /with/ Judoka or BJJers, doesn't mean he's training those arts. Sure, some people would say "Oh, he trained at that gym where BJJers hang out, he's a MMA" but those are the same retards who chant "Jiu-Jit-su!" when Vitor Belfort knocks a guy out without ever going to the ground.

If a CMA practitioner entered a MMA event, he'd be a MMA competitor. There's no such thing as a MMA practitioner. Just guys who study Muay Thai and BJJ, or wrestling and boxing, or kickboxing and Judo, or whatever.


I don't know enough about San Shou to address the rest of the question.

[Chang Style Novice]

Hmmm...okay, so you're coming from a different perspective than I described above. Fair enough. I think that good Shuai Chiao would probably be sufficient to defend a lot of takedowns (but don't really know for sure, either.) And you make an interesting - although probably debatable - point about the difference between a practitioner and a competitor as it relates to the difference between training and sport.

In fact, I bet we get some debate on that difference later on in this thread, considering it's one of the main obsessions of this forum!

So, in regards to the other point you make - our hypothetical cma practitioner would have to be able to defend from an inferior position on the ground - we're left with the question of whether this knowledge (which I think most of us agree is not part of any known cma curriculuum) is enough to automatically render an individual an mmartist instead of a pure cmartist.

And of course, the question of whether such a distinction matters.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
Hmmm...okay, so you're coming from a different perspective than I described above. Fair enough.

I think most people who really train seriously would have a similar perspective... that's just my opinion, though, and I might be wrong. Honestly, just about every style has its Raleks.

I think that good Shuai Chiao would probably be sufficient to defend a lot of takedowns (but don't really know for sure, either.)

I don't know enough about Shuai Chiao; all I've really seen of it is a few video clips. I do know that being practiced in defending against Judo throws doesn't prepare you for, say, a double-leg takedown; I train with Judo guys occasionally. I don't know whether SC incorporates a style of takedown/throw that would be sufficiently analogous to things like that to learn to defend against them. Sevenstar, RD, WD? Any insight?

In fact, I bet we get some debate on that difference later on in this thread, considering it's one of the main obsessions of this forum!

Well, if I'm not at the gym, I might as well be sitting around *****ing about semantics.

So, in regards to the other point you make - our hypothetical cma practitioner would have to be able to defend from an inferior position on the ground - we're left with the question of whether this knowledge (which I think most of us agree is not part of any known cma curriculuum) is enough to automatically render an individual an mmartist instead of a pure cmartist.

And of course, the question of whether such a distinction matters.

It doesn't to me. I mean, really, is saying "I won this tournament and I never studied more than one art!" really that big of a point of pride? I study catch wrestling. If and when I compete in MMA formats, I'm going to put some time in boxing and other striking styles, to get myself used to it. I don't consider that a knock on either myself or catch wrestling; it's being realistic in that styles have strengths and weaknesses.

[Chang Style Novice]

Yeah, I tend to think that purity is a load of horsecr@p. There's no such thing as purity in the phenomenological world. It's only an ideal, in the sense that the ideal is merely a mental construct.

Just because you do a little (let's say) bjj to fill in the gaps left by your (let's say) wing chin, doesn't mean that you're not doing wing chun anymore.

See the parable of the elephant for more details.

[SevenStar]

hey! It doesn't say no eye gouging!! CMA will dominate in this format!!!

There's really no need for a format change, IMO. CMA who train for MMA could do fine in it. You just have to find someone who is 1. willing to train VERY hard and
2. willing to change the format in which they train. Note that this doesn't mean that they can't apply their principles and merely "revert to kickboxing" as so many people on this forum put it. It means that they will be applying their principles for use with MMA rules.

Shuai Chiao does have it's own version of the double leg. It's quite different from the versions seen in bjj and judo though, so SC guys would be wise to train with bjj guys to experience their single/double leg takedowns.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Shuai Chiao does have it's own version of the double leg. It's quite different from the versions seen in bjj and judo though, so SC guys would be wise to train with bjj guys to experience their single/double leg takedowns.

Or, better, wrestlers.


Random style-pride aside, though, what does a SC-style double-leg look like? And does how SC players are taught to deal with it resemble the sprawl, or is it something different?

[SevenStar]

From what I know of it (I don't use it much, so maybe WD , MonkeySlapToo, neptunesfall or GGL can add more, but the SC double leg doesn't require you to step as deep into the opponent to use it, as the head is used as the fulcurm point to make your opponent fall. with the neck just left out like that, it seems like it would leave you wide open for a guillotine.

[Le nOObi]

Originally posted by FatherDog


In order to really do A&B, he'd have to train with practitioners of other styles. Because in order to learn to defend against a takedown and escape from inferior positions on the ground, you have to train it with someone who's good at takedowns, and good at maintaining position on the ground. And I don't think there are any CMA styles that are good at either of those things (possibly Shuia Chiao in the case of takedowns.)

Actually many chinese martial arts have a wrestling component, shuia chiao just happens to be centered around wrestling. For example here is a link to a tai-chi practitioner performing a takedown similiar to one in greco roman wrestling.