Master Gin Foon Mark sets record straight!

[Richard mantis]

In response to years of ridiculous controversy, Master Gin Foon Mark has decided to clear up some of the political problems surrounding Kwong Sai Jook Lum Praying Mantis Kung Fu.

Master Mark has dedicated his life to the preservation and continuation of this system. Many of the two person forms that teach timing and feeling were constructed by Master Mark and his partner, Chin Ho Dun. There is only one true master of his system - Gin foon Mark himself.Master Mark uses a renewable license system for authorizing students to teach his art. Students wishing to teach his art must dedicate themselves to the style by going through the "first Door" {Master Mark}.
They go through a ceremony and are then issued a certificate that is good for three years. After this three year period they must demonstrate that they are still dedicated to the style and have progressed in order to renew the certificate. Teachers without or with an expired certificate are not authorized members of Master Marks system.

This notice also very much applies to anyone who may have had a ceremony with Master Mark in the past, but has no license to teach under his name. Such a person is also not a member of Master Marks association.

Richard Mantis

[Self-Thinking Follower]

How much does the first door cost?
Also how much does it cost to renew this certificate every three years?

It seems Two-man Forms are not the only thing Mark has invented!

[Richard mantis]

Self thinking follower.
The specific terms are to be decided by Master Gin Foon Mark himself, not by me.

The "first door" was not invented by Master Mark but the licensing system had to be added
to clarify some political confusion.

Richard Mantis

[word]

All of this sounds like another great marketing plan. Just like distant learning of kung fu from videos. You send your tape in after you learned the form, pay $, and they send you your certificate. All garbage. But the reasonable guy would say " Distant learning allows people that are interested in learning to learn from the comfort of their own homes. It is very flexible and it's like having your own sifu on tape." That's a load of sh!t if you ask me.

[Richard mantis]

Yes nimblenuts, but have you read my post?
Does it say anything about tapes? No.

The certificate system applies only to people who are interested in teaching reguardless of how near or far they may be.And they must prove that they are still dedicated to the style and demonstrate that they have progressed. AS IT ALLREADY SAYS IN MY FIRST POST.

If you were familiar with some of the silly political problems Master Mark has had to deal with then you would understand why he wishes to better control those who teach under his name. Just ask the admin of this site about it.

[MoQ]

Master Gin Foon Mark has every right to guard his system, by whatever means he deems necessary. WAY too many people try and use his name without his consent. This needs to be dealt with and it looks like he's trying to do just that.
Of course, there are those that do nothing but sit around on their a$ practicing their brand of idiot judgementalism, but who cares?

[qy]

I agree whole-heartedly. If he did not use this system folks could complain about lack of quality contol in his lineage. Funny how so many folks think that it's not considered good to take care of your sifu. Especially when they are making money off of their name and lineage.

[lkfmdc]

>> There is only one true master of his system - Gin foon Mark himself. <<<

This is a very interesting statement when you consider that Lam Sang's (Gin Foon Mark's teacher) son is alive and well and teaching the system in NYC. I suspect there might be some disagreement [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[MoQ]

Is there disagreement that Master Mark is not only his senior, but possesses the Jook Lum altar?? Wasn't Gin Foon Mark a renowned and established Master before most of y'all were even born? For SOME, before your PARENTS were born? Wasn't he one of the first to teach authentic kung Fu on the mainland? Why are kids nowadays so...?

[Heather]

Ikfmdc
It says "only one true master of HIS system:
Gin Foon Mark himself". Note the word HIS.

Refering to Gin Foon Mark's system of teaching which includes the two man break down forms that Gin Foon Mark teaches.

Lam Sang's son teaches in his own way.

[Sam]

Are you speaking of Lam Sang Sifu's adopted son or blood son?

[Constipated Wombat]

Okay. So Gin Foon Mark is the only master of his lineage. As lkf points out, there are other teachers as well. I'd be willing to bet there are other less public teachers here or in hong kong as well.

But then, I'm the sort who cares more about whether a thing works than about lineage. I know that's not tradition, but if it works a guy can call it Southern Mantis, Northern Mantis, Eastern Pickle Fist, or Constipated Wombat style for all I care. All this political bickering does is make people from outside the mantis system just shake their heads and wonder why everyone's being so silly instead of practicing.


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grrrrrrrrrr. grrrrrrrr..
arrrrgggggggggghhhhhhh... grrrrrrrr <PLOP>
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[MoQ]

Dude, you ARE constipated... I know people nowadays respect nothing and view the Chinese martial traditions in a very mercenary way, but if you don't know d*ck about the problems a leader can have within the Lineage that they have responsibility over, why the heck even post? If you don't respect the traditions, why even offer an empty opinion? Master Mark has Lam Sang's altar and the lineage holder accoutrements. He probably(should) owns a copyright to the Jook Lum S. Mantis name.

"If it works use it" is ONE thing, but "If it works, call it anything you want" is absurd and excludes this opinion from any intelligent discussion...

[BeiTangLang]

Now _THERE_ is a pet peve of mine, Copywriting a style. What idiocy is this?? Shall we copyright a certain way to breath as well?? A certain way to wipe our rear-ends? certainly one way has to be better than others! Jeez....... Whatever happened to the old "So you say you teach XXXXXX!!! Let me see your gung fu!" A beating occurs & one walks away not able to teach that style any more. Honor in the martial arts has gone to hell so to speak because wusses are lawyer happy & care more about what they can get rather than what they can give.
Sorry for the rant & no offence to anyone; This was just building up & ended up here.
Thanks in advance for your tollerance;
-BTL

[MoQ]

Too many frauds, cheats, liars, acoundrels. Too many inexperienced people taken in by them. Copyright doesn't belong to anyone else but the lineage holders. If it weren't for Gin Foon Mark, no one would even know about S.Mantis. The Jook Lum lineage is his responsibility, and no one has d*ck to say about it.

I'll never understand why folks insist on posting that they don't care if it doesn't affect them directly.

[This message has been edited by MoQ (edited 07-26-2000).]