chi sau principles

[TjD]

Originally posted by Sui
i know i don't have a point it is only the way,i would not stick to it.in my experience there is no completion in any art.so why do you feel that you have reached any level at all?lop sao and lap sao is not the same so you are wrong to assume once again,and please there is no game here least of all mine,it shows you are threatened,but why times change and ppl grow.

cloud i agree,and no under no circumstances should you strike not even touch imo.because its out of the eqasion and will prove what is intended of that training.if you strike it breeds a certain emotion to win at all costs,to be the best.no-one learns eh yuan?


sui

sounds like tree-hugging-hippie-patty-cake to me then

[Sui]

tjd thats why you too having big problems with chi sao princeples.

[TjD]

mine seem to work just fine, thank you

[S.Teebas]

although when you said there is an opening you should go through I believe it is your partner that has opened up without being aware he has done so.

Agreed.

Then your principles will lead to your hands to spring out a little...

What about your body?

This is not combat so is it necessary to srike?

I don't hurt my training partners, becasue its training...not fighting. There are other things that i work on eg: controling the opponents balance. If some ones balance is gone when you stkie them it amplifys the power beacause they can't ground it.

But if you want to let your partner know his hands need more sensitivity then you should touch him.

Work on whatever you think is important i guess.

[Gandolf269]

Yuanfen:
You said in an earlier reply that, when doing Dan Chi Sau, you should not let the "other" hand become dead. Could you explain this more please?
My confusion lies in the fact that I was taught to keep the hand not participating in the withdrawn position, on the side of the chest (not sure of, or if there is, a name for this position). With the arm next to your chest, it is in a stationary position, isn't it? So I'm not sure how to make the adjustments your talking about. Or, what type of adjustments you mean.

[CLOUD ONE]

You asked what about the body- The body follows the hands i.e don't reach so to keep your structure rooted!!!
Your first touch will determine who has a better structure and who is not balanced!!!
So what you said about amplifying the power, is due to your partners unrootedness, I agree.
I believe that we are both TST line so the things we will work on may be similar.
So it seems you chi sau for yourself?

Where do you think the skill lies in Chi sau?

[yuanfen]

Gandolph sez:With the arm next to your chest, it is in a stationary position, isn't it? So I'm not sure how to make the adjustments your talking about. Or, what type of adjustments you mean.
---------------------------------------------------------------Gandolph- if
the elbow is properly down and the shoulder is properly down
and of you are appropriately relaxed and not tight the more obviously moving or dominant hand will have a subtle influence on the seemingly stationary hand. You dont intentionally overdo the micro motion- but it is part of the ying yang complimentarity
of motion that is there throughout wing chun development.Ergo-
Awareness of the connection aids in skill development.... a "conceptual" dimension...
joy chaudhuri

[S.Teebas]

So it seems you chi sau for yourself?

Nope. I misinterpreted what u said by touching your partner. In some systems I’ve seen people do little patty-cake hits without any body behind it and think they've "scored" or whatever because hit gets through even though there is nothing there backing it up. All I was trying to convey was that getting the body behind each movement is more important, from developmentally view point, then hitting with noting behind it....That’s my opinion anyway. Reasons being, on the street the amount of force someone is going to give you that have to redirect is going to greater than a light flick, they are going to try and rip your head off and put every ounce of weight into it. I think its more realistic to deflect a stronger and heavier forces. I see however your thinking is similar and I stand corrected.

On a side note, I think you do have to spend time concentrating on yourself, or how else do you improve? I frequently help by point out errors I see in my training partners, and suggest ways to improve.

Where do you think the skill lies in Chi sau?

I think it's the ability to summarise what you learn in the forms. Each time I practice im working on different things. Recently im working on allowing as much force I can to pass through my structure before I have to move my stance, while keeping completey relaxed. Also im understanding that it's the ability to react that is crucial to keeping the body unaffected.

Im interested in your ideas, where do you see the skill lies in chi-sau?

[CLOUD ONE]

There is always things to learn in 'chi sau'.
I am still learning so skill I can't answer but I like what you have said. I agree that keeping your 'centre' whatever your partner does is important. Keeping to the principles of loy lau hui sung lat sau jik jung is a key for me.
Have you practiced- partner chain punches and you defend with one arm? (wing arm)

[Gandolf269]

Yuanfen,
Thanks for clearing that up. The next time I do Dan Chi Sau, I will think about the connection between the two hands and the feelings in the stationary hand that are caused by the moving hand.

[S.Teebas]

I am still learning so skill I can't answer but I like what you have said. I agree that keeping your 'centre' whatever your partner does is important.

Dont be humble Cloud One! If you are talking about your centre then you obviously have some knowledge of the more important aspects of WC. Please share your thoughts on important aspects of chi-sau!

Keeping to the principles of loy lau hui sung lat sau jik jung is a key for me.

What does that mean?

Have you practiced- partner chain punches and you defend with one arm? (wing arm)

Not for a long time. Why do you ask?

[Rolling_Hand]

--r-h tobe totally honest with you,you have thrown me off balance--Sui

---------------------

Sui,

hahaha..... good to see ya again!

That's the reason why I gave up Bak Mei for Wing Chun in Fatshan.

I'm a Wing Chun man, and I always take your center!

Humm....

[Sui]

ahhh thanks but it springs to mind william chung how close are you to him?i too studyied beneath him,but then i took it to another level which is hakka pak mei,different to cantonese and again different to fatshan pak mei.its very similar to wills w/c but not.do not forget i never stay in the same place
also thanks for reminding me my center-good and remind yuan to go back to dan chi sao-also have you been back lately?

p.s i'm not pak mei at all now.

sui

[YungChun]

Originally posted by S.Teebas


I’ve seen people do little patty-cake hits without any body behind it and think they've "scored" or whatever because hit gets through even though there is nothing there backing it up.

I think this represents a 'stage', stationary Chi-Sao, and that hopefully later on these students will go on to stepping in - sometimes a small close is just enough so long as you follow.

In most cases it isn't critical to hit hard. More important most of the time is to ensure good position, distance and follow up (Fon Sao). An exception to this might be when you've got the movement down and need to work on releasing powerful energy. It's always fun to play with people working on this.

--

IMO Chi-Sao is all about training the concepts in the system and attribute development. Learning how to issue neutral energy while being sensitive to non-neutral energy and adapt is the crux of the training process.

YC