Home Training tips ?

[JaRmEz]

wow thanks for that

For chainpunching, concentrate on doing sets like 10 reps of 3, 10 reps of 5. Do not concentrate on doing more than 5 at a time continuoisly. In reality it is not practical to throw more than 3-5 chainpunches at a time in a fight. Concentrate on keeping relaxed to get power and on the elbow coming upwards rather than focusing on the fist going forwards. Make sure that your hand is withdrawing to about a fist distance behind the opposite elbow when chainpunching. Many people have a tendency to withdraw the fist too short in order to give the appearance of fast punches. Power is just as important.

this realy helps i completly agree with that and about the punching upward why would that be ? just wondering cuz i am 6,5 feet tall and i cant realy see a situation ware i would need to punch up unelss its just for the excersie or somthing

[UltimateFighter]

Read my post again carefully. I said focus on the ELBOW coming upwards rather than the fist going forwards. In other words, power in wing chun comes from the elbow. Rather than concentrating on the fist itself, concentrate on the elbow popping up as the arm locks out. This automatically propels the fist forwards. The punches themselves should be aimed directly towards the centreline, so you are punching in a straight line not upwards.

[Clint]

Atleastimnotyou said - Im not really good at telling if people are kidding or not, but... you're joking... right?



No, I am not joking! In my school we always practice shifting. And yes, we do shift on our heels. Do you shift on the balls of your feet? We also do chain punching drills, and shift on every 5th punch, ON OUR HEELS!

[yuanfen]

AIMNY: same old, same old.... why would Clint be necessarily joking. There are lots of good folks who turn on their heels... and no they are not necessarily easy to uproot.

Individual mileage can vary-no matter where you turn.

[Atleastimnotyou]

Originally posted by Clint

Do you shift on the balls of your feet?

No. we shift on our whole foot, feet flat.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by UltimateFighter
It is actually incorrect to to refer to the Wing Chun/Tsun stance as a 'horse riding stance'.

You only say this out of ignorance. No one cited "horse riding stance." Horse means ma, or stance. Since I was addressing a beginner, I tried to keep it simple, but obviously, I wasn't simple enough for you. The horse that I meant for beginner (and advanced) practice is the yee gee kim yeung ma (or mar). The chasing horse is called bil ma (mar).

It is known as either a 'Goat riding stance' or an IRAS.

No again. Kim yeung ma translates into "goat clamping stance."

For chainpunching, concentrate on doing sets like 10 reps of 3, 10 reps of 5.

Nah. Do a hundred at a time to finish the Sil Nim Tao when you are practicing at home.

Power is just as important.

Power is not important. That's a complete misconception. Probably a Britishism, since it certainly doesn't originate in Hong Kong Wing Chun.

Your arms should get tired in dan chi and chi sau. This is part of training.

No again. Your arms should never tire before your horse does. You should be engaging your horse, not using upper body strength. I'm surprised that you don't know all this.

Train the forms with tension in the legs and forearms.

Are you deliberately trying to misinform? No, of course there should be no tension in the legs and forearms.

This should be tiring rather than relaxing, although SNT can also be trained as a relaxation method like Chi-Gung. However for wing chun practice it should be trained with tension in these areas but relaxation in the rest of the upper body.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Thanks for sharing the Wing Chun knowledge that you pulled out of your ass.

Regards,

[S.Teebas]

Grendel is correct.

[JaRmEz]

well i cant be sure if im right im just going on what my sifu said and that was
to do the formc orrectly you must completly tense your forarm and upper arm and move slowly tense them so hard that at first your arm starts to shake he also said if it dont knakcer your arms out then your doing it wrong and that it shoudl always do that cuz i should always be pushing myself

[JaRmEz]

i sorry i 4got to say that its not the whole form he says to do it just the first sectiion the second section we do realy fast with power and i have not done any REAL work on the third but i think its skil trainging or soming

[UltimateFighter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Grendel

You only say this out of ignorance. No one cited "horse riding stance." Horse means ma, or stance. Practice is the yee gee kim yeung ma (or mar). The chasing horse is called bil ma (mar).

'Ma' is in reference to horse riding stance or horse. Yes, that is what 'horse' means. And that is what separates it from karate.

Kim yeung ma translates into "goat clamping stance."

Goat clamping? Goat riding? You really are into petty euphanisms. And in WT the stance is IRAS. Do not talk of what it should be called if you have no idea.

Power is not important. That's a complete misconception. Probably a Britishism, since it certainly doesn't originate in Hong Kong Wing Chun.

WTF?!!!!!! What kind of martial art are you attempting to learn? Power comes from relaxation. It is VITALLY important, and anyone who practices wing chun is aiming to exert maximum power with minimum effort. Jeez, you really should think about what your doing before trying to do it.

Your arms should never tire before your horse does. You should be engaging your horse, not using upper body strength.

It is not a case of using upper body strength. The forearms should be tensed and the rest of the upperbody should be relaxed when practicing the form. In chi sau the aim is to be soft but not weak. There must be a constant slight pressure exerted in the forarm. This is how wing chun works.

Of course there should be no tension in the legs and forearms.

No tension in the legs either? Now you seem to have contradicted even yourself LOL.

Hmmmm, a complete beginner such as yourself should really not be trying to inform anyone of anything.

[JaRmEz]

now now i just wanted peoples thoughts and help there is no need to argue abviously its been tought differently who is to say which way is right well maybe some1 but i dunno who there is no need to argue about this even if som1 is wrong they were just rtying to help

[kj]

Hello Ultimate.

Originally posted by UltimateFighter


Goat clamping? Goat riding? You really are into petty euphanisms.

I believe Grendel is referring to the translation from Chinese. Do you know it?

And in WT the stance is IRAS. Do not talk of what it should be called if you have no idea.

Oops. Your point could have been stated without getting personal or unfriendly.

WTF?!!!!!! What kind of martial art are you attempting to learn?

Apparently, same type I am trying to learn.

Power comes from relaxation. It is VITALLY important, and anyone who practices wing chun is aiming to exert maximum power with minimum effort.

Yes. The paradox is that the more we "try" for power, the more elusive dramatic power becomes. You might inquire further with Grendel to see what he means.

Jeez, you really should think about what your doing before trying to do it.

Oops again. You may be assuming too much, or missing something underlying Grendel's comments.

It is not a case of using upper body strength. The forearms should be tensed and the rest of the upperbody should be relaxed when practicing the form. In chi sau the aim is to be soft but not weak. There must be a constant slight pressure exerted in the forarm. This is how wing chun works.

This is the piece that interests me. From many videos I've seen, and prior discussions by some other WT folks, your comment about applying forearm tension doesn't surprise me. Yet from what I've heard about Leung Ting, and from some of long term WT students, it is hard for me to imagine that Leung Ting himself practices or teaches dynamic tension. I am still not sure how to resolve this seeming inconsistency, or what I am missing in order to make sense of it.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the specific purpose of such tension in your practice? Do you also apply this dynamic tension in application? I am curious, as we rather enjoy when the opponent has forearm tension, inasmuch as it provides more to read and work with. On the same account, we try to avoid such tension in ourselves.

No tension in the legs either? Now you seem to have contradicted even yourself LOL.

You might inquire with Grendel further to try and understand what he means and what he's getting at.

Hmmmm, a complete beginner such as yourself should really not be trying to inform anyone of anything.

Oops!

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[yenhoi]

Tension in the arms! Hah.

It MUST be christmas.

Anyways, Im sure there is much benefit to utilize dynamic tension, but: first, its not needed - but people probably like bigger forearms, second, all the disadvantages KJ mention should be enough to phase you from this path, but third - basically if your sifu says so, then do it.

I dunno, maybe in the advanced SLT you dont tense anything?

Its funny, I have a WT video from like 30 years ago or something like that, the first few minutes are on WT history, then it goes into this great section, where they have a guy wearing a shirt that says right, and another that says wrong, then the narrator explains: some branches do their sets with the legs to wide.... some branches use tension in their forearms, some branches lean backwards.......etc and the whole time they show the guy with right on, knocking over the wrong dude. This is the only WT video I have, and it led me to believe that they do not train to have tension in the forearms. Dunno.


For the poster: Id say do what your sifu says, but keep this thread in mind when it comes time to touch hands with other people.

[UltimateFighter]

It seems there is quite a lot of confusion in this area. On the topic of 'tension'- The form can be trained differently than how you do the shape in Chi-sau. You are supposed to tense the forearm in SNT to develop the muscle in this region. Forearm, not the whole arm.

You are confusing 'relaxed' with 'limp'. The forarm is not fully relaxed in chi sau as that is physically impossible. There must be some 'tension to hold up the ams for a start. But the arms must be very soft and relaxed with a 'slight' forward pressure/tension. This is necessary to 'read' the opponents movements and to immediately strike forwards if any gaps are found or if he withdraws. Ask some other WT folks if you need clarification of this.

I fear that Grendel and Yenhoi have misunderstood this idea in training.

To quote Yip man (from Wing Chun Kuen by Yip Chun):


"If in chi-sau practice the man is very tense in the arms he is only a beginner. But if he feels soft and light but when you push him you feel pressure back, then be careful because this one will be very advanced."

I think you will find this is in line with what we train, at least to the best of my understanding, the Leung Ting approach deriving from Yip man.

[JaRmEz]

people saying WT and WC are they the same ? i thought one was wing tsun or somthing and other other was wing chun ? should be taking any notice about WT ? or is it all teh same ?