Lau Gar vs Lau Ga

[Sasha]

Is there actually any difference between the two, or are they just different types of spelling?
Cos I found this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kungfu/kfeng09.htm
on the website of a school I might try out while I'm at university, but it really doesn't sound that much like what I've learned of the style so far...

[lau gar]

hmm i wouldn't know but it says it northern style which is false/

[iron thread]

I agree with Lau Gar about the origin. I heard that Lau Gar was famous for its pheonix eye fist, not its kicks.

[Sasha]

I dunno about what it's famous for. The phoenix strike is one of the new techniques I'm learning atm for the next grade, where you strike with the middle joint of the index finger, which is supported by the thumb. I dunno if that's what you mean? It seems like a technique which has the potential to cause a lot of pain on either the user or the recipient, so I wouldn't actually use it unless I'd totally run out of ideas without a *lot* of training.

I never thought it was unique to Lau Gar though?

[David Jamieson]

the phoenix eye is not unique to Lau Gar.

it is found in many styles of chinese martial arts and even in styles that are not of chinese origin.

it is a fist form that allows for a lot of energy to be directed through a small point. (like a 30 - 06 bullet or a bodkin arrow)

Ga and Gar are different romanizations of the same word. Meaning "family" or "house of" etc etc.

Lau Gar is a stand alone style in some places and has also been absorbed in several Hung Family styles.

good examples of Lau Gar kungfu can be seen performed in kf movies with Gordon Liu in them, like the 36th chamber (master killer) or raiders of buddhist kung fu and others.

it is also worth mentioning the Lau style is one of the big 5 southern styles. Li, Mok, Choy, Lau and Hung ( by one reckoning )

cheers

[Colin]

Hi Sasha,
The Lau Ga described on the dutch site is not Lau Gar as it is generally known in the UK.

The guy that teaches in NL is called Mark Horton.

He studied Master Yau's Lau Gar in the UK for a while then left to concentrate on competition fighting.

He then mixed many freestyle techniques & bits of other Arts to "invent" his own version of Lau Gar Kuen. Hence he spells it differently!

The comments on the site about it being a northern style is totally made up rubbish!

Lau Gar Kuen is a southern system with close links to Hung Gar and many of the Hakka styles like SPM & Pak Mei.
The Pheonix punch is very common in many Hakka styles. It is first learnt in the form Charp Choi (drilling punches) and although the form is relatively short, the essence & style is much the same as that found in the Nine Step Push form of Bak Mei.

As for studing Lau Gar, I'd check out what the instructor teaches.
There is a distinct line down the middle of Lau Gar Kuen. One side focuses heavely on competition training, while the other concentrates exclusively on the traditional Kung Fu.
Ask the relevent teacher what he teaches as the differences can make two classes seem like seperate styles!

Colin.............
Http://www.laugar.org.uk

[Sasha]

Nice site Colin

If you teach Lau Gar in London, I'd guess there's a fairly good chance you know my Curtis Page, who's my teacher. I think he goes for a balance between the two aspects.

One thing he's never done though, is get a dedicated Lau Gar website up, which is a pain, cos there aren't many others either. I'd really like to find a website which showed the forms in Lau Gar executed properly, so I can check on them while I'm at uni (where I can't train in the style).

I don't suppose you know of any sites that do anything like that (even a written description would be better than nothing)?

I normally use Brian Nelson's site which is a bit like yours, with less info on the style itself, but which gives the names of the syllabus techniques in English as well as Chinese.

[Ben Gash]

Isn't Mark Horton one of Liu Chia Liang's (Lau Kar Liang) guys?
Kung Lek, Gordion Liu (Liu Chia Fei/ Lau Kar Fei) is part of the famous Lau clan. They however study Hung Gar, not Lau Gar. Liu studied Hung Gar from his adoptive brother, the aforementioned Liu Chia Liang, the famous actor, director (5 Shaolin Masters, Legendary weapons of China, Mad Monkey Kung Fu, Drunken Master 2) and Hung Gar Master. I've seen footage of him doing forms, and it wasn't fantastic, but his fight with Sammo Hung in Pedicab Driver is something else!
Let's face it guys, origin legends are just that. Anyway, you can be a southern style and have good leg techniques (good doesn't necessarily mean flashy), after all, Hung Gar is famous for it's shadowless kick (I don't know why, it's hardly rocket science).
Kung Lek, it's one of the 5 family styles. I don't think they qualify as the big 5 (Hung, Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun, Pak Mei and SPM would probably be closer).

[David Jamieson]

well Ben, I did qualify the big 5 statement with a (by one reckoning)

the styles you mentioned are quite popular to be sure.

and I'm certain that the staff set from 36 chambers in the intro following the tid sen demo is the Lau Gar pole set.

any way, it's all good.

want to mention also that changing "Gar" to "Ga" doesn't do much seeing as they really are the same thing just different english phonetic interpretations.

cheers

[phoenix-eye]

I do Lau Gar in UK and am moving over to Hung Gar at the moment.

I think the staff set in the intro to 36th Chamber comes from the Hung Gar Monkey King Staff and not (Hung Gar's) Lau Gar Staff.

Sasha, I thought Curtis Page was now more freestyle than Lau Gar? He runs the semi contact superleage doesn't he? I don't know him so just curious.....

Don't get confused by the UK Lau Gar and Lau Gar sets within Hung Gar. Having learnt some of both systems, the Hung Gar forms are definitely very different to Lau Gar forms although they contain some similar techniques.

Phoenix Fist is common in UK Lau Gar. The 3rd set Charp Choi uses PE strikes exclusively which are targeted to vital points. This is a beginners set and therefore indicates the importance of this technique to Lau Gar(UK).

Hope this helps.

[phoenix-eye]

Ben

Sorry - forgot to say that you are right about Mark Houghton. From what I read he learned is Hung Gar (v.good I believe) from Lau Kar Leung.

[Colin]

We have a mix up here!

Mark Houghton.
Is a respected Hung Gar Instructor, based I believe still in Hong Kong.
He has trained for years in Hung Gar in HK, and is involved in the HK movie industry.

Mark Horton,
Is a skinny bloke from Kent who spent a few years learning competition Lau Gar & freestyle.
He now has some affiliation to CLF, but runs this made up Lau Ga thing from Holland.
I'd avoid it like the plague!

Two different people!

Sasha,
I know Curtis Page. We used to train together under sifu Stan Brown in Acton.
Ask to see Curtis perform a waistknife (brordsword) form. He was always amazing with this weapon.

Yes! Curtis focuses on competition stuff now, but his traditional Lau Gar has always been very good.
He was a superb fighter, when he was still part of the BKFA he ran the London predators fight team.

No! Curtis Page does not run the National Semi-contact superleague. This is run by Neville Wray who is still very much a part of the Lau Gar.

I'll put a full translation of all the chinese terminology up some time.
I'm also looking to get a few pics up of some techniques from the forms, but it takes time to get sorted.

Phoenix eye,
It's a shame you are moving to Hung Gar from Lau, but then i do know you were with Scotland Lau Gar, and they have somewhat bas-tardised the Lau Gar syllabus since being disowned by Master Yau.
Doesn't JG now include Hung's Lau Gar fist form in his syllabus?
I suppose he only learnt half the system, so has to add bits from else where!
Still good luck in Hung Gar.

Colin.............
http://www.laugar.org.uk

[Colin]

In a word no!

I don't think I could explain that to you sorry!
As I have a funny feeling you a trolling, and i'm not going to be dragged into anything.

Arrrrgh! ok I'll bite.

I take it you know the Bak Mei Gou Boo Teaw then?

Good!

ok.. So do you know the Lau Gar Charp Choi form?

You do.... wonderful!

If you know the two forms then I have no need to explain the simularites of "style & essence" do I?

cheers
Colin........
http://www.laugar.org.uk

[phoenix-eye]

Thanks Colin

I'm sure your comments aren't meant to sound as disparaging as they do. I will continue to be with Scotland Lau Gar as my Sifu is superb and has a wealth of good Kung Fu knowledge. You do not necessarily have to be under Master Yau's organisation to be good at what you do.......

However, my Sifu has been travelling to the US for some years to study under Sifu Kwong Wing Lam and he himself has been over to teach us in Scotland. When I say I am moving over from Lau Gar to Hung Gar I am staying with the same Sifu and will continue to learn the Lau Gar syllabus - which is taught in an entirely separate class.

The addition of Lau Gar Kuen (from Hung Gar) has been done in some clubs to pave the way for those who wish to expand into Hung Gar also.

All the best with the Lau Gar.

[Ben Gash]

Oops! How embarrasing ! It was the started learning in Malaysia as a kid that got me (the pictures didn't load, as I do know what Mark Houghton looks like).