Lau Gar vs Lau Ga

[Sasha]

In all fairness he doesn't sound that well informed on the subject...

[AndyM]

What makes you say that Sasha?

[Sasha]

'Invented by Jeremy Yau?'

I know he changed the style a bit, but that's going a bit far, surely? Especially since I've never yet known a style that *didn't* get changed to some degree by each generation of its teachers.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Sasha
'Invented by Jeremy Yau?'

I know he changed the style a bit, but that's going a bit far, surely? Especially since I've never yet known a style that *didn't* get changed to some degree by each generation of its teachers.

That's the whole point though, isn't it.

What did he change? Where did he get it from?

Is it me or is the lid on this can of worms getting loose?

[Eddie]

seeing that there are so many Britts on this threat, why not any of you offer to send me some Ali G recordings. is it still showing on your tv channel4?

Ali G is the best thing to come since Monty Python.

UK comedy Rules
Andy M, how bout it sir?
e

[AndyM]

Sure Eddie,

what format, and where to?

[Eddie]

will pm you.
is ali g still showing in telly?

buyakasha
e

[Serpent]

Hear me now!

RIIIIIIDE THE PUNANI!

[Ben Gash]

The major problem Lau Gar has is that while we all see them fighting in points tournaments, but their's very little on technique and tradition available in the public domain. Jeremy Yau is quite an old school teacher in that regard (it's only on reading recent threads on this site that I learned there was more than one set for each Lau weapon).
I mean sure he trots out the same old cliched lines, but you can't blame the man for making a living as long as he doesn't sell his art out. At the end of the day I never met a Lau guy who couldn't fight.
The other problem is that Hung Gar guys can't seem to get it through their heads that the 2 Lau Gar forms that they know may not be the be all and end all of Lau Gar. I do Choy Li Fut, I wouldn't proclaim vast knowledge of Li Gar just because I know a form called Li Gar Kuen.
There are even vast differences between Lau Gar forms in Hung lineages. I know of at least 3 distinctly different versions of this form. Indeed, the Lai Ng Sam version looks quite similar to UK Lau Gar.

[AndyM]

Hi Ben,

aside from training the UK Lau Gar forms, I did train the Lau Gar fist form from Hung Gar as well. I look at the Lau in Hung Gar as being a totally seperate thing.

The big question, is that there appears to be a Lau system practiced in China using the same point of origin Jeremy Yau claims.

This in itself is no problem obviously, but from what I've seen of the syllabus, it's totally different to what is done in the UK.

Understandably, this is a sensitive issue for some people.

[Ben Gash]

But that is all part of TCMA. Different lineages can have completely separate syllabuses (or is that syllabi? )
It's amusing that the people who really go for Lau Gar are Hung Gar and Wing Chun guys. While these systems are reasonably uniform in the west due to the prevalence of one lineage (Lam Sai Wing- Lam Jo for Hung and Yip Man for WC) I can point to various lineages from mainland China that are wildly different to what they practice. Does that mean that their's is made up westernised rubbish?

[custom156]

I, for one, agree with Bey Logan. The simple truth is that there has been a history of this type of thing since the early seventies in the UK. In point of fact the original British Kung Fu Council before it became the BCCMA was founded by people with chop socky bit of this and that systems. Whether it matters one way or another is a completely different issue. The council members were at odds with each other when the first real traditional system wanted to join, this and its effects led to the break up of the original council to become parts of the AMA, the MAC, the BKFA ,UKASKFA and the BKFC which became the BCCMA.
One only has to look at most of the clubs and associations belonging to the BCCMA these days, there are hardly any really traditional arts, that is those still practiced around the world that originate from China belonging to it. It doesnt matter what anyone shouts and screams about this, its true, and those who have been around the arts long enough, that is have practised on both sides of that proverbial fence, know it. It may well be difficult to swallow, but enough research will show that most of the 'kung fu' practiced in this country is indeed made up from this that and the other.
Note that I don't say all, because I know this is not the case.

On the other hand, so what?!

[AndyM]

"Different lineages can have completely separate syllabuses (or is that syllabi? ) "

Sure they can. I was however saying that from what I gather, the same lineage is claimed. It would therefor be reasonable to see some form of simbiocism between the two?

There are other factors involved which make the Hung Gar and Wing Chun people itch, which is the similarity of a couple of forms within UK Lau Gar. There are various explanations for this kicking about.

[AndyM]

Originally posted by custom156
It may well be difficult to swallow, but enough research will show that most of the 'kung fu' practiced in this country is indeed made up from this that and the other.
Note that I don't say all, because I know this is not the case.

On the other hand, so what?!

By observation, the same could be said for every art, and every country.

So what? Well I guess it would only matter to you if you were directly involved?

[Ben Gash]

There's a difference between being the same lineage and having the same root. If you don't have the same root then it's a different style. In terms of similar evolution, Wing Chun and Hung Gar are both supposed to have stemmed from students of Gee Shim and have both evolved to be wildly different. It all depends on how far back the lineages divided. We know that Yau's lineage has been distinct for over a century as he learned it from his grandfather (and Yau's no spring chicken). Therefore we could expect the system to be broadly similar to other lineages but need not necessarily have the same forms. Bak Sing Choy Li Fut is a prime example here.
I'm not saying one way or the other if Yau's system is legit. I've said all along that there's not enough evidence one way or the other to say. However, I've tried to highlight that some of the accusations levelled are fairly insubstantial.