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Thread: History on the 5 famous staff forms of China

  1. #1
    HungFist Guest

    History on the 5 famous staff forms of China

    Hello again,

    I was wondering if anybody knows what the five (5) famous staff forms of China are and what system they belong to. Also do the staff forms have any order to them. I believe a couple of the staff forms are:

    (2) YANG GA NG LONG BAHT GWA KWUN (Yang Family 5th brother eight diagram pole - HUNG GA



    (NOTE: I'm not putting these two in any order.)

    I wont bet my paycheck but I believe I have the first one correct. The MDLHSF is one of the highest forms in the Hung Fot system. It was made famous by HUNG CHIU SHING a.k.a "The White Hair Devil" who was one of the most famous Sifus of the Hung Fot system. The second one I feel soso correct but may have the name wrong and do not know the system. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Always looking to be enlightend.


    [This message has been edited by HungFist (edited 08-24-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by HungFist (edited 08-24-2000).]

  2. #2
    Je Lei Sifu Guest
    The complete name would be the Yang Ga Ng Long Baht Gwa Kwun (Yang Family 5th brother eight diagram pole). This form is very famous in the Hung Ga system, although other styles have the version of it also. The Yang family were soldiers who were very famous for the spear techniques. During battle the Yang family were ambushed by their enemies and several of them died. The 5th brother escaped to a a monastery to become a monk. Because of the nature of the religion practice in the monastery, (buddhism) sharp weapons were not allowed. So, Yang Ng Long cut the spear head off of the weapon but continued to use his family techniques. This is how the weapon and form became famous. At what point did it enter into the Hung system, I have no idea.

    I hope this helps you in some why.


    Je Lei Sifu

  3. #3
    HungFist Guest
    Je Lei Sifu,

    Thank you for your incite. By the way what style of Gong fu do you study & with who if I may ask.

    Hope to chat with you again

  4. #4
    Je Lei Sifu Guest

    How are you my friend. I study Hung Ga under Master Cheung Shu Pui of Philadelphia, PA. He is the USA representative for Grandmaster Ho Lap Tin, who was the student of Tang Fung.

    Until next time........Peace

    Je Lei Sifu

  5. #5
    CLFNole Guest
    Choy Lay Fut has the Seurng Gap Dan Kwun (Single Combined With Double Head Staff) form which is quite well known in the martial world. I don't know if is one of the 5 famous staff forms since I didn't know there were 5 famous staff forms. Both the Mad Devil Staff of Hung Fut and Hung Gar's Ng Long Baht Gwa Kwun are quite famous. The Lau Gar Kwun of Hung Gar is also quite well known as are other Choy Lay Fut staff forms.

    What I trying to get at in not such a good way is that most of the famous staff forms come from Southern Systems since staff is a primary weapon. Northern styles typically are more famous when it comes to spearplay.

  6. #6
    HungFist Guest

    Thank you for your response. I think you may be onto something. My sole purpose here is to get as much infomation as possible for historical purposes. I think what I'll do is wait to see if anyone else HITS my question before adding the information. I dont want to jump the gun.

    Until next time

  7. #7
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    From what I've heard, Ng Long Bat Kwa Kwun is found in Choy Lee Fut, Hung Gar, and a few other southern shaolin styles. I think NLBKK came to these styles through Gee Sim at southern shaolin monestary. Another very famous type of staff, Luk Dim Boon Kwun (six and a half points staff), is found in Wing Chun, and was created by Gee Sim. LDBK is very simple and very effective, but NLBKK is more complex.

    I'm not too sure about Lau Gar Pang, but it could be famous? I haven't heard of Hung Fut's staff form before. Aren't there some northern staves that are pretty famous too?

    Hao Ji Kwun / Chai Mei Kwun (monkey staff / eyebrow level staff) is found in many styles too. I've heard lots of people using those names, but I don't know if they are doing the same thing.

  8. #8
    Je Lei Sifu Guest
    Hey Paul:

    Hun Je Pang (Monkey Stick) is also in the Hung Ga system. It is the first staff set learned and is somewhat basic.

    In our school, we also have a two-man set for this weapon.


    Je Lei Sifu

  9. #9
    Wah Ren Jie Guest
    Je Lei Sifu, Nihao! Hey do you have a website dedicated to your Sifu and Si-Gung? I didn't know there were practitioners of the Tang Fung lineage in PA. I'd love to know where else you guys are!


  10. #10
    Je Lei Sifu Guest
    Sei Ping Dai Ma:

    Hin Hoa

    Nay Ho Ma?

    At this time someone from the Mo Gwoon is working on putting a website up which should display pics of Sigung, Sifu and everyone else. When it will actually be up, I am at a lost. I myself am not familiar with designing a website, or else it would already be done.

    I am not sure where all the Tang Fung people are, since most of them are quiet and keep to them selves. But of course you know there is Master Frank Yee of New York who has several skilled and well known students. Other than that, I am not sure of any other within the area.

    Peace to ya

    Je Lei Sifu

  11. #11
    bean curd Guest
    like some have said, i have never heard of there being five famous staff forms of the china. there are staff forms that are well known as those stated above, like the 5th brother of hung gar, mad devil of hung fut and of coarse the double headed staff of choy li fut.

    from the heritage of the 5th brother 8 diagram, there is also the famous shei family staff form, although it is rarly seen these days, it was known by the great tam sam of the buk sing choi li fut system.

    there are so many staff forms from so many great sytems it would take a book to name them, let alone there history, but like i said never heard of only five being famous.

    some are from both north and south, there are five element staff , pa-feng staff , heavenly staff , ch'ens staff , t'ung chen staff , swimming dragon staff, five tigers staff, coiling dragon staff, flowing water staff, red sparrow staff, whirlwind staff, and as also mentioned the six and a half point staff. hung fut also has another famous form called the left sided staff.

    as i have said, the list would go on.

    as of the monkey, there are many systems that use this animal in form, but with different usage.

    in dia shing pak gwar, chan shau chung is famous for a staff form of this system called, "the monkeys cudgel of heaven staff", which is totally different in usage to the hung gar "monkey staff" form, and of coarse the drunken monkey staff is also of different character.


    [This message has been edited by bean curd (edited 08-26-2000).]

  12. #12
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    Thanks for the info bean crud. Have you ever trained with Chan Sau Chung? I'd be really curious to learn his style.

    Hey Jerry, good to hear from you again. We also train "monkey staff" as our basic form, and have a two man set as well. The hao ji kwun / chai mei kwun is our "kwun" (staff) form. The lau gar pang is our pole form. Ng Long is our advanced staff form, but contrary to popular belief, there is no Ng Long spear. Technically speaking, there might have been one at one time, but if people want Ng Long spear, they can just stick a spearhead at the end of their staff =)

  13. #13
    Je Lei Sifu Guest
    Hey Paul;

    Good to hear from you also.

    I haven't heard of the Ng Long Churn, besides the spear technique used by the Yang family. However it would not have been named after the 5th brother anyways.

    In our lineage the spear use, and I don't mean to get off the topic at hand, is call the Jow Sao Moi Fa Churn (left-hand plum blossom spear). This set was taught to Tang Fung by a monk from the Wah Lum Temple. This is the spear form my sigung has learned from Tang Fung. Although this weapon is in our lineage, it is not done in Frank Yee's schools. The set they do is, if I am not mistaking, the Baht Gwa Churn (8 diagram spear), which may be in reference to the Yang family spear technique. However, I am not sure. You would need to ask someone from Master Yee's school.

    If you would like to know more info on this, email me at


    Je Lei Sifu

  14. #14
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    I've noticed some people talk about "left handed this" and "right handed that". Shouldn't you train your weapons for use on both sides of your body? (just like kicking and punching)

    The spear that we train is Lee Fa Cheung (pear flower spear) for beginners, and See Gar Cheung (See family spear) for advanced. See Gar Cheung comes from See Mun Long in the Song dynasty, (way before hung gar or southern shaolin).

  15. #15
    bean curd Guest

    i never had the pleasure of being able to train with chan sifu, (maybe you can ask sifu able, i am sure his knowledge of chan sifu is far greater than my own) due to my focus on hung gar and hung fut, only with one of his students in the early 70's, and just for a small time.

    i was fortunate to see the form, only once, i'm not sure now, but in those days, it was rare to see the form, even chan sifu, didn't perform it publically that much, from what i remember i was told he only performed it twice in public, but it is an exquisite form, very fast and the player has to have very good control of the staff, due to the twirling, have strong legs, and very fit.

    the form is very demanding on the player.

    the monkey staff of hung gar is more solid, and is full of a different flavour and intent, as you would know.


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