What does everyone think about training videos? Are they beneficial?

[Deacon]

Okay, so I'm new to the shaolin systems and have been dying to become involved in them for the last few years. I have finally found a school that can teach me the five animals, eagle, and a few others, however I am a bit financially strapped at the moment for an additional committment to trainning (I currently am studying Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).

Since I can't afford the classes right now, would a video on, for instance, eagle claw be a good introduction to understanding and becoming familiar with a style or is it a bit unpractical for learning the style. I really want to get started on training but if instructional videos are unhelpful, I'd like to know. What does everyone think? Your comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

BTW, is anyone familar with reputable schools of shaolin, or related Chinese systems in the Chicagoland area? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[David Jamieson]

people have different abilities in their personal learning style IE: some can learn when shown, some need to hear and be shown, some can just watch and others need total involvement and so on.

If you are a person who can learn from a video then go for it. They are an incredibly useful tool of instruction if they fit your learning style.

and don't let no one tell you different. you may need corrction at some point, but that's what everybody needs in some place regarding their training or performance.

cheers

[kai men]

Well, my position about this is contradictory.
I think that Videos are a very valuable tool for research. Also think that if you are going to train with a teacher who lives away from your town, you could benefit from training with the videos first and during your relationship.
But...some people have became "kung fu teachers" just by learning some videos. These are the bad news about this.
So what can we do?
Some teachers edit videos with forms cutting some movements so the guys cannot learn them properly. Others make the mistake to edit "all the style" so many persons just buy the videos and in a while create a school.
Videos are a tool. If you use them properly they are wonderfull. If you dont, just the opposite.
My teacher doesn't like videos very much. I have no authorization to edit (for example) choy li fat videos with complete forms. I think it is a wise decition.
Kindest regards
horacio
PD about "learning from videos" it is a reasonable good tool if you plan to go to the teacher some day to make corrections.

[Sharp Phil]

A lot depends on the individual video, too. I review a lot of instructional tapes, and they aren't all created equal. There are a lot of little details that can make the presentation of good content mediocre in execution (or vice versa).

[freedom76]

I have found videos easy to learn from, but I had been studying martial arts for about 6 years before I started using them. Some videos are easier to learn from than others. Ive liked Sifu Wing Lams videos quite a bit. Also, the Shi Guolin series, which you can buy from this company are also done very well. The Whip Chain video by the Jiang Su Wushu Team--also available from this company--was also done very well. I think you need to have a good base in Kung Fu to gain that much more from a video, but a lot depends on you. Give it a shot. Xiao Hong Chuan is a pretty basic form that is part of the Shi Guolin series. That might be the best one to start with. This is just my opinion based on my experience. Good luck.

[HuangKaiVun]

Videos are terrific.

I actually learned MORE from videos than I did from real life kung fu instructors.

You can always pop in the video, even at 2 AM. If you can't see a detail, you can go into slow motion or rewind to the sections you need. And the video is a one-time fee.

However, I always tempered my video training with heavy doses of sparring. One has to be able to USE his kung fu, regardless of where it was learned from.

Combat is how I figured out if what I did worked - and what I'd have to do to correct myself from getting beat up again.

[kai men]

Well, I am sorry to read it. If you have learnt more from videos than from real instructors, I hope I will never meet your instructors! ;-))) just kidding. I am sure they will feel very happy to know what you have learnt from them: you learnt how to learn from videos :-)
I agree in this: Videos are indeed terrific. er...let's say, SOME videos. Anyway, I have never met an instructor who puts his best knowledge in a video.
Regards
horacio

[Royal Dragon]

I think videos are a great tool, especially if you are researcing rare arts. HOWEVER, you need to have a strong foundation in the fundementals, and the eye to determin if the preformer on the video has them. A good example is a series of Tai Tzu forms I just got in. The sets themselves are very good, but the performers performing them are VERY bad. The body structure is all wrong, the useage is all wrong, the body mechanics are all wrong, the flavor is all wrong. You really need to have an experianced eye to see those sorts of details. That only comes from a good teacher. I can do quite a bit with those tapes anyway, because I have the eye to see this stuff, and I have VERY good examples of the core principals, flavor and expression of what this art is suposed to be from a variety of sources. An inexperianced beginner would get it all wrong due to the fact that this perticular tape is all wrong, other than the sequence of techniques is right that is. I am going to have to rely on my onw background in the art to "Restore" it. A beginner can't do that.

Another example is a Taiji Ruler video I got from Rich Mooney. He sent me the outside movements of the exercise, but not the inner body mechanics. Now, for me this is no big deal as I already have the "Inside" of the Taiji Ruler, and it is really nothing for me to just plug the principals back into the moves he sent me. BUT, a total beginner would in no way be able to learn from the tape as the core fundementals are missing so far as body structure, and mechanics go. The video was not meant to teach, but ment to introduce newbies to the perticular Qi Gong he teaches. You still need a teacher to get it right.

What i'm trying to say, is once you have been trained by a GOOD teacher, you can expand yourself quite a bit with video and books. But if you DON'T have that foundation, they are just cool things to collect.

[tomcat]

Deacon, see if you can get the 1st form taught at the school your interesed in on video,after you learn the movements and techniques, if your still interestd then go to the school,you will have a jump on the curricullum,and a better idea of what the system is like.
Just my personal opinion but 5 animals may mix with your jujitsu better than Eagle claw.

[yu shan]

I personally use video as "notes" when I Train with my Shrfu. I video training sessions, for later viewing. No way should you "learn" from a video, a strong advocate of having a Teacher. This being said, to our Older KF Brothers, you are perfectly able of visually "picking things up" on video...I like being taught the old way!

[HuangKaiVun]

Regardless of whether you're learning from a real sifu or a video one, you have to change the set to fit your frame and tendencies.

Much of that which works in sparring for my slow 5'8" 250 lb sifu doesn't work for the small quick 5'4" 135 lb guy like me. No amount of real instructor sifuing can change that.

The gold standard in kung fu, regardless of style, is DOES IT WORK?

I'd rather learn one technique from a video that works against a living resisting opponent than 100 techniques from a real life instructor who has all the lineage and tradition and can't fight (most of the time, this is the case).

I've trained as a closed-door disciple, and I will say that so-called "best techniques" are usually merely variations on simple ones.

Besides, I've been trained how to TEST my moves to see if they work or not.

[tomcat]

Most video's I've seen don't show a whole lot of techniques,and if you have not had training with a Sifu,you will not be able to pick them out. They can be a great aid, and can open up insghts that were missed or not understood,when explained by your sifu.

[Laughing Cow]

My Sifu has a Video of the first form out.

Quiet a few of out students bought them and we use them for reference.

Some of those cannot attend every class as they live to far away (5hrs on train one-way).
So they learn the rough movements of the tapes and get corrections from Sifu when they come down.

Yes, they are useful and at the same time very limiting.
Our Sifu does a very "hands-on" approach where he corrects our movements phsyically and will also allow us to lay hands on him so that he can feel the difference.

Plus, the movements within the forms change as we progress. A 1st yr student will execute the move differently than a 5yr student.

And you can learn a lot from watching your fellow students too.

As a supplement I think they are good, as sole teaching tool bad.

[MonkeyBoy]

I.M.H.O

Videos are a great supplement.

They are a simple way to see what the other guy is up too.

They are not a substitute for a qualified instructor.

There are plenty of poor instructors out there who provide lousy to no feedback but there are no videos out there that provide any feedback at all.

[Royal Dragon]

Still, a good video is better than a bad teacher. Especially if you have a dedicated training partner with a good eye.