One Inch Punch

[Lews]

Hello all!!!!
First of all I would like to say thanks for all of those who responded to my last email "Nothing New".....It is not what I wanted to hear but it was what I needed to hear.
Second the next question I have in mind I would like for people to keep in mind the following:
-I know and understand everything takes time.
-I know that proper technique/practice is the cornerstone of everything
-Please don't respond with "It depends" or "worry about the proper punching technique and body power first"
-I know the real one inch punch would make you collapse and not fall back
This is for all of the individuals who can correctly execute the one inch punch

1.)How long did it take you
2.)Did you have to work on it or is it a by product of good wing chun
3.)In your opinion is it combat effective
4.)Have you ever used it in combat


thanks in advance and a special thanks goes to one senior student/teacher that said "It only matters who gets there first"

[yuanfen]

Lews asksAnswers in brackets)
1.)How long did it take you

((Dont remember- some time ago))))

2.)Did you have to work on it or is it a by product of good wing chun

((Good wing chun))

3.)In your opinion is it combat effective

((You betchum))

4.)Have you ever used it in combat

((Define real combat.
PS. You dont even need an inch))))

[Miles Teg]

I dont have one inch power but....
Its been said to me that it develops well naturally. And can be a bi-product of good chi sau because chi saoing develops the springness and connectiveness in your arms and whole body.

It goes back to my old 'anti-no forward pressure campaign' thread though. I dont see how you can develop those things in chi sau if you are not using forward pressure while someone uses forward pressure on you.

[t_niehoff]

Hi Miles,

Miles Teg wrote:

I dont have one inch power but....
Its been said to me that it develops well naturally. And can be a bi-product of good chi sau because chi saoing develops the springness and connectiveness in your arms and whole body. MT

A couple of points. First, and this isn't meant to pick on you personally but I see this all the time -- if you can't do it, it means you don't understand it. And if you don't understand it, it's better IMO not to rely on what others tell you (especially when giving opinions). Second, I don't know what "develops natually" means. If we look at the evidence, the overwhelming majority of WCK practitioners haven't developed "inch power" to any significant degree. IMHO it (inch power) like everything else, needs to be trained specifically, with the focus to develop it. All the chi sao in the world won't develop it (you develop it and then put it to use in your chi sao). TN

It goes back to my old 'anti-no forward pressure campaign' thread though. I dont see how you can develop those things in chi sau if you are not using forward pressure while someone uses forward pressure on you. MT

IMHO pressure is a tool - don't miss the goal by focusing on the tool. Chi sao trains *some* aspects that we use in fighting; it does not train everything (and is certainly not fighting). One aspect of san sao is to develop our ging (it is part of our gung lik - power training in WCK) like "inch power". TN

Terence

[Redd]

Second, I don't know what "develops natually" means.

Then you obviously have not experienced it.

this isn't meant to pick on you personally but I see this all the time -- if you can't do it, it means you don't understand it. And if you don't understand it, it's better IMO not to rely on what others tell you (especially when giving opinions).

[t_niehoff]

Second, I don't know what "develops natually" means. TN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Redd wrote:

Then you obviously have not experienced it. R

No, I haven't. Any skills that I've developed to any appreciable degree -- or experienced in others (who were truly skilled) -- were intentionally achieved with focused, specific training (knowing what it is you're trying to do, then having specific training toward that end). The "develops naturally" school seems to think that by "doing WCK" (LOL!) we will magically develop skills, attributes, and understanding in a myriad of things. As I said in my other post, the overwhelming evidence (in the form of the skills of most practitioners of WCK) proves I'm correct. TN

Terence

[black and blue]

... I don't see how inch power is related to forward pressure in Chi Sau.

The inch power (or less than an inch) that I've seen my Sifu issue, is about creating a very explosive and power hit from next to no distance, whether the attacking hand be a punch, palm etc. (He can also create this with man geng sau, and it would surely result in severe whiplash).

I didn't think I should be using that amount of force (I wouldn't call the power generated in the hit 'pressure') when I was rolling. In fact, I clearly wouldn't use this when rolling, and I think springing forward when a gap appears during Chi Sau has little connection with inch power (other than the fact the two are both moving forward).

But maybe I'm way off the mark and have misunderstood what is being said (it wouldn't be the first time).

[TjD]

every hit is a one inch punch.

mine still isnt perfect after 3.5 years. the wooden dummy form helps it the most imho.

[yuanfen]

TJD sez or quotes:
every hit is a one inch punch.
------------------------------------------------------
not true in most wc folks who I have seen,:
perhaps you mean "ought" to be?

It is part of the ideal of some southern hands though some of the best Chen stylists have it---each from their own delivery system- which vary (stances, motion, hands). It is sometimes called short power sometimes.

The southern tong long folks spend a great deal of time on it.
But very good tong long people dont come in bunches- unlike wing chun folks they havent cared about missionary work and expansion of schools.

[TjD]

Originally posted by yuanfen
TJD sez or quotes:
every hit is a one inch punch.
------------------------------------------------------
not true in most wc folks who I have seen,:
perhaps you mean "ought" to be?

well mabye they should practice harder.

i'm not perfect, but i've only been doing this for 3.5 years - not EVERY hit i make has the wing chun power generation behind it, but most do. its something i strive for through chi sau and sparring

[t_niehoff]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yuanfen
TJD sez or quotes:
every hit is a one inch punch.
------------------------------------------------------
not true in most wc folks who I have seen,:
perhaps you mean "ought" to be?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TJD responds:

well mabye they should practice harder. TJD

IMHO, first - "inch power" can be used by any bridge, not just the punch; second - not every bridge or every punch should always use "inch power". Like everything else, it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes, for example, long power achieves much more. It's not just having it, but knowing when and where it best applies. TN

Terence

[TjD]

Originally posted by t_niehoff


IMHO, first - "inch power" can be used by any bridge, not just the punch; second - not every bridge or every punch should always use "inch power". Like everything else, it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes, for example, long power achieves much more. It's not just having it, but knowing when and where it best applies. TN

Terence

i think inch power and long power in wing chun are the same thing. however, i totally agree that inch power can used with every bridge - but shouldnt nessecarily. on bridges, you can use inch power - aggressive, or not - passive. i've never made a passive strike

[t_niehoff]

TJD wrote:

i think inch power and long power in wing chun are the same thing. TJD

"Inch power" *to me* is the ability to generate power -- whole body power -- with our "weapon" from a very short (or no) distance from the target (hence the "one inch punch" where the fist is an inch away from the target). Long power and short power refer to the length of time we're actually in contact with the target and issuing forth (so "inch power" can be long or short power). I realize that many people use "inch power" and "short power" interchangeably - and I mistakenly thought you were too - so sorry for any confusion. TN

however, i totally agree that inch power can used with every bridge - but shouldnt nessecarily. on bridges, you can use inch power - aggressive, or not - passive. i've never made a passive strike. TJD

IMHO WCK's approach (unless we're in emergency mode, and we don't want to be there) is to not in any way be passive; our bridges should thus never be passive (the punch is just a bridge). TN

Terence

[SirenOfAcreLane]

I've had inch power for a number of years, gained mainly from A LOT of wrist conditioning, and hitting 3 section bags at short distances. TO answer your questions:


1.) To learn inch power took a long time, maybe a year or so, but the "1 inch punch" took about 5 minutes to learn. It's mainly for show, imo.
2.)Had to work for it, it's nothing ot do with wing chun, though i have no doubt that good Wing Chun training would help you.
3.)Only if you have time to get in the correct stance. If you were laughing a surprise attack, then yes it is, but if you are being attacked, it doesn''t really help.
4.)Yes, but i used it to push someone, rather than punch them.

[t_niehoff]

SOAL wrote:

I've had inch power for a number of years, SOAL

What do you mean by "you've had it"? Everyone has it to some degree. Some just use their arm; others use their whole body. The question is the quality of it, the pervasiveness of it, the "instantness" of it, etc. TN

gained mainly from A LOT of wrist conditioning, and hitting 3 section bags at short distances. SOAL

Are you talking about a certain type of punch or the ability to generate whole-body power and exert it from very short to no-distance? TN


TO answer your questions:

1.) To learn inch power took a long time, maybe a year or so, but the "1 inch punch" took about 5 minutes to learn. It's mainly for show, imo.

What I most commonly see when folks tell me that they have "inch power" is that they are using their arms (to punch) with a sudden, explosive contraction (what I gather you're doing from your "wrist conditioning" statement) to generate power. IME, "inch power", like the rest of our power, comes from the body (specifically our center). You should be able to isolate the musculature of arm (including the wrist) from the action and still generate great "inch power". TN

2.)Had to work for it, it's nothing ot do with wing chun, though i have no doubt that good Wing Chun training would help you. SOAL

Since WCK's method is not to exert force until contact, it seems to me that "inch power" is of paramount importance. TN

3.)Only if you have time to get in the correct stance. If you were laughing a surprise attack, then yes it is, but if you are being attacked, it doesn''t really help. SOAL

IMO, the YJKYM (not the "stance" but the training, i.e., the gung lik) is to train us to be able to instantly develop power and exert it instantly in all directions. TN

4.)Yes, but i used it to push someone, rather than punch them. SAOL

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. TN

Terence