Kill Bill

[@PLUGO]

drunken style...

[yutyeesam]

More like Cocaine-Style! He's a spaz!

[The Willow Sword]

Well i went to go see the opening of Kill Bill today and whereas our beloved austin chronicle gives the movie a 4 star rating(obviously brown nosing tarantino who resides here) i find it not to be that of four star material. Maybe a 3 star, yes i woudl give this flick a 3 star rating.

Pretty much it is gonna be what most are expecting the movie to be. lots of fighting and tarantino esque flavor and ridiculous gore(he is definately keeping in with the old shaw brothers films)

i thought ,all in all, it was good but i have to say that this new thing in movies to make you wait for the next part is really quite annoying. i mean i would have sat there for an extra hour if it meant that i didnt have to wait another god ****ed year for part 2 to this film to come out.

Uma thurman is a hottie by any standards so i enjoyed watching her parade around like bruce lee on a revenge mission.
i liked the Jap animae in the film,,,,great addition to it.

as for the fighting in the film? you know i have to say that i think fighting in films has really gone down hill these days. i mean you have real fast shots and skips and fight scenes that really confuse the hell out of you.you start to watch a scene and then it flashes to another angle and then it goes back to what you were watching to begin with and it gets all confusing. i mean i remember the days when you could watch a fight film and actually SEE HOW they were fighting and you could SEE the fight. as with films like "Fist of Legend" and some of Jacky chans old films.
but when you have inexperienced actors that Look good but are not necessarily in shape or have the ability to do what jet li and jacky chan did you get a less quality fight scene and you have to make up for it with all those fast shots and seeing the back of the actors head(which is a stunt double anyway)

But aside from my @nal retentiveness to fight scenes in movies i Liked Kill Bill alot and even though i am PI$$ed that i have to wait another year for Volume 2. i am still looking forward to seeing it.

*** three stars from the willow sword.
Peace,

[Judge Pen]

Thanks TWS.

I agree with the fight direction complaint in most movies, but you hit the nail on the head. It hides the inadequcies of the actors.

[Chang Style Novice]

Yeah, fast cuts and tight shots suck. I want as little editing as possible and as good and complete a view of the actual movements of the players as possible, please. I'll probably see KB1 this weekend.

Minor correction, though - Pt 2 is scheduled for February, so it'll be considerably less than a year to wait.

[The Willow Sword]

i did not know that, thanks for the info on Vol. 2 i can now breath a sigh of relief knowing that i wont yet be another year older before part 2 comes out.

Peace,,,,,,TWS

[illusionfist]

Although I think i'll reserve my overall opinion of the flick till after the second, generally I think the movie was probably the most "out there" of Tarantino's flicks. There were some latent throwbacks to the old school stuff, but I really wish they would have gone with the TRUE old school way of shooting long shot fight scenes. Of course this pretty much isn't possible since the actors are not martial artists.

I liked the homage to the flying guillotine with Gogo's weird arse chain whip of doom thingy.

It seemed that Yuen Wo Ping might have been creatively held back (although I realize there is probably more to come in the second), but that fight scene at the japanese bar was handled pretty well. The gore was just too goofy in my opinion and it was pretty much in league with the gore found in Riki Oh (which was goofy on purpose).

Tarantino's strong points are usually in the dialog, and I think this movie had some pretty good lines- especially Uma's part after the fight in the japanese club.

Stylistically, I think a lot of the shots were too long and the intended mood was lost. He could have trimmed a few minutes off the last fight scene alone just by not focusing on that **** water pump thing (which was kind of a throwback to Kurosawa in some ways). I really didn't dig those **** long shots on Uma's funky arse feet.

The anime part was probably my least favorite, but admittedly its because I really dont like anime. On a stylistic level it really changed the mood, but I think told the backstory creatively and some shots were used that would have been pretty hard to do live action. I think this was just a way of paying homage to the whole martial arts film/ anime genre and catering to the specific audience. It seems like he was really trying to cover a lot of bases.

Plotwise the movie is pretty predictable (so far as of the end of this movie), but I'm sure there will be some plot twists.

That's about it. I think this movie will be more enjoyable the second time around for me. I just hope that Carradine really gets mauled in the second movie. I hate that *******, haha.

Peace []

[SanSoo Student]

I think that tarentino should've used more creativity in the weapons, and that bar fight was so influenced by old school kung fu flicks..except that it never showed any real martial art style, you now something you can relate to and recognize some moves. And the film kept losing the kung-fu feel everytime another limb would get chopped off.
I do agree some fight scenes got boring because you can never really appreciate the martial art styling they put on the film because there wasn't any style.

[Judge Pen]

I read that Vol. I is to have a more Japanese flair to it while Vol. II will be more Chinese.

I agree with the bar fight being over the top, but I thought the fight between the Bride and O-Ren was perfect. I even liked the water spout.

[apoweyn]

Volume 1 definitely had more of a Japanese tone than Chinese. From the long staredowns and pacing of the exchanges to the flashing swordwork after which three people stagger a bit and fall down. All of it very reminiscent of chanbara samurai films.

There is some fu in there too, obviously. Gordon Liu, the "rope dart" (read: enormous metal, bladed ball thing), the guy with two axes, etc.

Yuen Wo Ping is listed as the martial arts "advisor" I think. I was watching the credits at the end (though, admittedly, I was also filing out of the theater) and I thought that they listed a different choreographer. That kinda makes sense to me. The Japanese scenes, in particular, didn't look particularly like Yuen Wo Ping's work to me.

I'd bet that his capacity as advisor had a lot to do with preparing the actors for the choreography though. And on that note, I have to disagree that fight choreography has gone downhill. I mean, obviously Uma Thurman doesn't have the technical know how of [insert favorite kung fu star here]. And that will either show in certain movements or be covered by savvy editing.

But the quality of choreography is worlds better than anything, say, Van Damme ever turned out. And universes better than previous efforts to make non-martial artists look like martial artists. Why? Because Yuen knows what makes a fight scene interesting. He knows that real martial artists aren't better because they can do a jumping front kick rather than just a plain old front kick. (That, for a long time, was a favorite move in movies to denote that the hero knew fu.)

Yuen knows that what really makes two combatants look capable is the flowing exchange between them. Parry, counter, parry, counter. Look at the Matrix. The first fight between Neo and Morpheus. Sure, you could say "Neo shoulda turned his hip over more on that round kick." But good grief, the flow of that fight scene was gorgeous. Same with Kill Bill.

Personally, I think the quality of fight scenes has skyrocketed. Jet Li is always going to look smoother than Keanu Reeves. Always. But martial arts have now actually become a legitimate and respected part of mainstream movies. And the actors and choreographers deserve a lot of credit for that.


Stuart B.

[MasterKiller]

Sonny Chiba directed the Japanese sword fights.

[GeneChing]

I found it very enjoyable in a guy flick sort of way. If CTHD was the oscar-winning kung fu chick flick, then Kill Bill was the beer-swilling guy flick. Come on, what red-blooded male can't appreciate hollywood hotties doing martial arts, even if it's not the greatest martial arts display. It was very grounding.

I agree with TWS in that the choreography was medicore overall. It was yards better than most Hollywood films, but if you're going to compare it to vintage Shaw, Chan, Li or Lee, you should really think twice about the standard you are setting for those hotties. I mean really, those great classics of the martial arts - those actors were martial artists first. They had some training, serious training, and there's just no substitute for that. But the cinematography of KB v.1 covered a multitude of sins. We here on this forum have much higher standards than most filmgoers, so I'll be interested to see how the general public perceives it.

I really wasn't expecting anything major martial arts-wise from that cast, except for Gordon Liu, who I felt was terrible under-used. I've never really liked Sonny Chiba as a martial artist. But I'll admit I really enjoyed his performance in KB v.1, maybe because he didn't do any martial arts himself.

I thought of Ricky O too with the gore, but I think it was more inspired by the Lone Wolf and Cub series. Actually, the film really worked as an homage for me since scene-for-scene, I could see so many other movies. The whole anime sequence was a take on Golgol 13, right down to the sniper bullet eyeview and the x-ray vision of broken bones.

What can I say? Tarantino hooked me with that opening SB logo and the coming attractions. That took me right back to the Great Star theater in Chinatown and my teenage years spent on pilgrimages to SF for dim sum and the latest kung fu flick. I tell you my heartbeat quickens whenever I see that SB shield on the big screen.

As for that **** water fountain, remember what I said about beer swilling earlier? I had prepared by reliveing myself just before the movie, but something about the combo of Guinness and Fosters (my brand and my buddy's brand) cut through my bladder like a dragon well kwan do and by the final fight, I was struggling with all my retention kungs. After the final kill I made a dash, but if I had remembered that v.2 was coming, I could have probably held out to the end. That water fountain is what pushed me over. Nothing like the sound of a japanese water fountain after you've let a half dozen brewskis percolate in your belly.

Anyway, I'm down for the sequel. Maybe even for opening night. KB v.1 was fun, an I'm eager to see how it will affect future Hollywood attempts on the martial arts movie.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, Gene, you've talked me into it: I'll be wearing Depends when I see it!

[illusionfist]

That's funny Gene, the same thing happened to me. After Uma was sitting down after her fight with Lucy Liu, I had to make a dash to the bathroom. Too much fargin beer. I basically missed the end. Then I came back and caught the part about the daughter and then I stayed to watch the credits. I thought there would have been a preview for the next one at the end, but no dice.

Peace

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Sonny Chiba directed the Japanese sword fights.

Oh yeah? That makes a little more sense.