OT: Gaming & D&D updates...

[SanHeChuan]

Yeah, but 3ed still has rules for no apparent reason other than "game balance". Like even though the ranger gets the ambidexterity and two weapon feats he still can't use double weapons. Why?! Where is the logic in that?

It will only discourage rangers from using double weapons because they will have to spend feat slots on feats they should by all rights already have.

I think that most of their new double-weapons are stupid, but can't a guy get a quarterstaff over here. I also think short spears should be double weapons too in proper kung fu fashion.
.

[red5angel]

SanHechuan, first, sometimes you need rules to establish game balance, sorry but thats the way games work. However, a ranger only need to buy exotic weapons feat to use double weapons. That was the othe rthing they fixed in my view, no bizarre limitations on things for as you say, game balance, like my elven fighter topping out at 12th level......


Yenhoi, now we have to fight, you realize that don't you?

[Oso]

r5a, what I meant was that they took the need for creativity on
the part of the dm and players buy supplying the enormous glut
of information. I think it's all cool and I like to read it and am
slowly becoming a fan of 3ed. There was never any reason you
couldn't do whatever you wanted with a character...you just had
to convince the dm to let you.

we've invented tons of classes from books we read:

a sha'um rider subclass of fighter from the Gandalara Cycle.

a Bear Cult complete with Bear Cult clerics and monks (my own
creation and personal favorite)

and others.


yep, the double ended weapons are a little silly

I think the biggest boon was making beginner wizards easier to
play and not as likey to die if a kobald sneezed on em.

MaTT

[txwingchun]

Yeah I never liked the level limit rule myself. I usually over looked level limits for my games. How do you guys feel about the monk?As a martial artist I've always been partial to the monk I really liked the martial art option from the 1 st ed Oriental Adventures and really like the idea of customizing a martial art for a monk. I don't really like the martial art feat system of 3e or the vanilla monk on the PHB anybody else with me on this? I'm thinking of incorporating and expanding the rules from the 1st ed OA and make a monk MA more custom make for each monk.

[red5angel]

I gotcha, true, but I think it opens it up to the younger crowd, especially first timers. I for one usually have very little reference material for gaming. Lately I have got into the FR world and so own most of the supplements for that but I generall work on the fly so encourage the creative side. Actuall, I attribute my creativity to gaming in general. My wife says I have an incredible imagination.
The thing I get out of the involved supplements is good big picture information. That leaves me to deal with the smaller details of the game itself while running it, and combined allow me to run a rich and well visualized world.

However, I find most old timers resisting 3rd Ed mostly out of stubbornness, I think its a great edition, it has cleaned up the messiness of the last edition, consolidated the rules into something easier to understand and keep track of. For a gaming system I think it works great and you still have the two things that have always made D&D, well D&D, the D20 and hit points, not to mention armor class (Don't get me started on THAC0...)

[red5angel]

by the way, best game ever: GAMMA WORLD!!!! any edition but the third!

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by red5angel
by the way, best game ever: GAMMA WORLD!!!! any edition but the third!

Yes an excellent game I don't know if you're aware of it but it's being brought back.

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=6207

[apoweyn]

have played: D&D, marvel, star frontiers, conan, TMNT, star wars, stormbringer, warhammer, delta green...

am playing: call of cthulhu, 7th sea, paranoia, dying earth, deadlands...

want to play: all flesh must be eaten

[red5angel]

txwingchun - I love you....no really, Gamma World was originally released re-released as a Wizards game but unde rthe Alternity system, which basically sucks and I wa sboggle dby why it wasn't done in D20.

Ironically I had just gone through last week and translated all the mutations from 4th Ed to the D20 system but will probably put it on hold to see how the official release looks.

Ap- How is 7th Sea?

[Marshdrifter]

Wow that little debate about D&D is making me feel all happy
and self-rightous.

<smug>Class? Hitpoints? Levels? What are these things of which
you speak?</smug>

I never really liked a lot of these things. A lot of (imo) unnecessary
limitations are lobbed onto games in the name of "game balance."
Yeah, a lot of these things can keep players from running a full-
bore munchkin, but so could a good gm.

I think one of my biggest problems with D&D (and I don't know
if they fixed it with 3e, but I doubt they did) is that every
character is, by definition, a character of note. They are, at the
start, already more powerful than your average person. From
there they go from powerful to ludicrous. There you fall into the
problem that most superhero-based comics have challenging the
main character.

[Oso]

Has anyone played Homeworld on PC?

I just found a copy that my girlfriend bought and never installed.

I'm a big fan of David Weber and have been looking for a good
space battle game.

I gotcha, true, but I think it opens it up to the younger crowd, especially first timers. I for one usually have very little reference material for gaming. Lately I have got into the FR world and so own most of the supplements for that but I generall work on the fly so encourage the creative side. Actuall, I attribute my creativity to gaming in general. My wife says I have an incredible imagination.
The thing I get out of the involved supplements is good big picture information. That leaves me to deal with the smaller details of the game itself while running it, and combined allow me to run a rich and well visualized world.

However, I find most old timers resisting 3rd Ed mostly out of stubbornness, I think its a great edition, it has cleaned up the messiness of the last edition, consolidated the rules into something easier to understand and keep track of. For a gaming system I think it works great and you still have the two things that have always made D&D, well D&D, the D20 and hit points, not to mention armor class (Don't get me started on THAC0...)

I agree on all points, like everyone I have my own preferences of
course.

hey!! what's that old timer crack about


Since I had read every FR novel and pretty much every
supplement I was able to spit out 'flavor' text pretty well and i
think my players appreciated it.

i do agree that the thaco thing was like 2 steps forward and one
step back.

all in all I like 3ed.

did anyone else get 'attached' to some of the old pics of
the monsters? Some of the creatures that D&D introduced me
to will forever look like the original art to me. Granted the artists
in 3ed are better (I think a bonus from the Wizards/Magic
connection) I still see things in black and white sometimes.
I guess more old timers syndrome again.

ah, well...............

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by Marshdrifter
Wow that little debate about D&D is making me feel all happy
and self-rightous.

<smug>Class? Hitpoints? Levels? What are these things of which
you speak?</smug>

I never really liked a lot of these things. A lot of (imo) unnecessary
limitations are lobbed onto games in the name of "game balance."
Yeah, a lot of these things can keep players from running a full-
bore munchkin, but so could a good gm.

I think one of my biggest problems with D&D (and I don't know
if they fixed it with 3e, but I doubt they did) is that every
character is, by definition, a character of note. They are, at the
start, already more powerful than your average person. From
there they go from powerful to ludicrous. There you fall into the
problem that most superhero-based comics have challenging the
main character.

Yeah the characters stil tend to start powerful and at higher levels they continue to roll for Hit Points so thier even stronger now. If you like low powered game Harn is best for that it's a really good system and the world is one of my favorite settings.

[red5angel]

MD - Here is how I look at gaming, most games have their downsides, I haven't found a system yet I am 100% satisfied with.
As for the high powered characters in D&D....DUH!!! If you want something less powered, try Warhammer Fantasy RPG. I for one enjoy the heroic aspect of D&D and would never deny that is exactly what it is about. As for challenging the players, well thats a GM's job!Being a character of note is exactly the point in my opinion. For example, my buddy loves WHFRP, because you can play everyday guys, smiths, cooks, etc... but why? Why the hell would I want to devote several hours of my time a week to playing a **** cook when I could be out slaying dragons and saving the world (again.)As for game balance, in general I agree but it has been my experience that if the game itself isnt balanced inherently you spend a lot of time arguing with players on how things work, especially those who are rule inclined.
All in all I think it is a matter of taste and what you are into. My buddy in the above example likes realism, like you he doesn't 'get' hitpoints and doesn't like the fact all characters are characters of note. I for one believe the characters should be the type books are written about, and not just books but trilogies and series!!!

[txwingchun]

Originally posted by Oso
Has anyone played Homeworld on PC?

I just found a copy that my girlfriend bought and never installed.

I'm a big fan of David Weber and have been looking for a good
space battle game.



I agree on all points, like everyone I have my own preferences of
course.

hey!! what's that old timer crack about


Since I had read every FR novel and pretty much every
supplement I was able to spit out 'flavor' text pretty well and i
think my players appreciated it.

i do agree that the thaco thing was like 2 steps forward and one
step back.

all in all I like 3ed.

did anyone else get 'attached' to some of the old pics of
the monsters? Some of the creatures that D&D introduced me
to will forever look like the original art to me. Granted the artists
in 3ed are better (I think a bonus from the Wizards/Magic
connection) I still see things in black and white sometimes.
I guess more old timers syndrome again.

ah, well...............

I've read quite a few FR novels not too bad. I'm not real fond of some of the new dungeon punk art work myself. One of my favorite artists from the old books is Erol Otis followed bu parkinson,elmore and trampier.

[apoweyn]

red5angel

Ap- How is 7th Sea?

mechanically, i have no idea. our GM tends to use his own system (based on FUDGE). but the game itself is excellent. jam packed with swashbuckley goodness.