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Thread: china may have beaten columbus

  1. #16
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    Nobody is even using the word 'discovered' without quotation marks around it for the very fact that we know that people were here when the explorers arrived. You have to learn to calm down, read, and ask questions before assuming you know what people do or do not know.

    being part indian i can safely say that all this crap about who discovered america first and who was here way before him or her or whomthe fuk ever is MORONIC and totally Naive.
    The man with the 13000 year old skull of a Caucasian women found in the Americas would have something to say about that since the previous "oldest skull discovered in North America" had Mongoloid characteristics and was 2000 years younger.

    I never said the research was spot on, and I expected casual conversation about the theory. What I didn't expect is that enormous chip on your shoulder.

    Way to be pleasant.
    Last edited by Stranger; 01-13-2003 at 07:26 PM.
    Monkey vs. Robot

  2. #17
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    willow-

    part "indian"?

    I'd just like to say that the world is older than any culture and it will be here and we will all change again and again.

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #18
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    The man with the 13000 year old skull of a Caucasian women found in the Americas would have something to say about that since the previous "oldest skull discovered in North America" had Mongoloid characteristics and was 2000 years younger.

    There is a sucker born every minute
    Last edited by The Willow Sword; 01-13-2003 at 08:03 PM.
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  4. #19
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    Says the former Shaolin-Do guy

  5. #20
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    Willow Sword,

    I keep re-reading this thread, and I honestly can't figure out what set you off?

    I'll say it again, nobody used the word <discover> without putting it in quotes, those weren't typos. That meant that the word <discover> was not to be taken literally (a silent way of acknowledging that they couldn't discover that which had already been discovered). It was a pleasant conversation throwing about intermingling odd historical legends and facts regarding exploration of the Americas. The mention of the 12000 year old skull was introduced as theory not fact, and I intentionally referred to the theory as the "author's beliefs".

    You call me a moron for not knowing that the 'indians' (as you call them) were present in the Americas prior to the arrival of any of the explorers mentioned in the thread. Not true, I 've known it for quite some time and I even posted a link in this thread that mentioned that the 'indians' showed up 10000 years ago @8000BCE which is a lot earlier than anybody on the list (2640BCE being the oldest).

    You call me naive, even though I warned that the credibility of some of the expeditions mentioned on the list is questionable.

    You called me a sucker, when I posted that the 12000 year old skull was just one man's theory. In fact, I never once said that I believed that the skull proved anything, instead I referred to the "author's beliefs".

    So I never disrespected you or your 'indian' heritage, but you went out of your way to disrespect me and then stuck with it, instead of being big enough to say, "I'm sorry, I read more into the posts than was there."

    What's the problem?, because it isn't in this thread.
    Monkey vs. Robot

  6. #21
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    stranger,

    no one's ever accused willow of being the brightest bulb in the chandelier. his panties are bunched up for some reason unrelated to this thread. he ignores the quotations point, even though that is how i started this thread -- with quotes around discover. oh well.

    brad,

    that was one of the best comeback quips this forum has ever seen. i hereby give you tomorrow off. enjoy your day of rest.
    " i wonder how many people take their post bone marrow transplant antibiotics with amberbock" -- GDA

  7. #22
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    Red face oooo oooo oooo

    yeah that was a real good comeback

    thats a dead thread,,,dont try to ressurect it.


    What sets me off about a thread like this is the notion that other nations claim some sort of birthright or take credit for "discovering" this continent when it was the more than 600 nations of natives peoples stretching down into southamerica that blanketed this land.

    True that seafaring nations such as the norsemen and the Phonecians came over here,,,but these were not conquering war mongers set out to claim the "new" land,,they were merely passing through.

    oh and FYI "coloumbus" did not land on the northamerican coast,
    his little band of happy spaniards landed in what is now called the carribeans where he met the TAIYEENO people and rendered them extinct.
    later on the other conquistadores such as cortez hit the mexican coastline,,and ponce de leon hit the florida coastline.

    there are old "what seem to be" celtic ruins on the east coast and go in as far as Kentucky(where i am from)
    and the "Serpent mound" of the ohio state,,in case you didnt know, is another older celtic ruin that the native peoples of that region do not claim as their own.

    there is an ORAL tradition that has been handed down for a long time amongst these peoples and it is almost lost.
    but we have these archeologists and so called scientists digging up these peoples grandmothers and coming to these far fetched conclusions about life over here.
    If the chinese did come over here there is NO evidence or oral history amongst the people to chronicle it.
    i apologize for calling some of you "morons" but you have to understand about the native mindset when it comes to matters like these and discussions like these.
    yes KUNG LEK i am "PART" Native american,,,Cherokee and Iroquois to be exact(it is documented in my mothers family)
    and being one who has grown up and being raised in the spiritual ways and teachings of these peoples it touches a nerve when i see and hear the term "discovery" of this land.

    TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  8. #23
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    Yes, it's probably a bad idea to bring up SD on this thread, but it does bother me that someone with your history would call people "suckers". Talk about hypocritical. But if it bothers you so much, I'll leave that part of your past alone

    If the chinese did come over here there is NO evidence or oral history amongst the people to chronicle it.
    Really. How would you know there's no evidence? Did you read the book and research his claims? Did you contact(or try to contact) the individuals the author did? Have you contacted every Native American tribe in North America and learned about their handed down histories?

    Also, you bash people about not stating the obvious which is common knowledge. Everyone knows the native Americans were here first. It's why we call them "Native" Americans. And why can't someone use the word "discover"? It's not like everyone knew what was over here. To them is was very much a "dicovery". You just need to not take things so personally. No one's implied anything even a bit insulting about the Native Americans.

  9. #24
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    To everyone else, sorry about taking this a bit off topic. I guess I do have some overall "problems" with TWS outside of this thread(and it's not entirely 'cause of Shaolin-Do). I'll try to set those aside from now on. Heck if I actually met him in person I might actually like the guy I think this is an interesting topic and I'd hate to see it degrade into a flame war :P

  10. #25
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    Post Brad

    Really. How would you know there's no evidence? Did you read the book and research his claims? Did you contact(or try to contact) the individuals the author did? Have you contacted every Native American tribe in North America and learned about their handed down histories

    HAVE YOU?

    or better yet,,,Does any native american tribe give this joker ANY credit for his "Theories"? i certainly didnt see any.

    and as for me "contactacting every native american tribe in north america and learned about thier handed down histories."



    not even going to reply to that one.

    Oh so Brad has some problems with me "outside od SD" hahah well take a number and get in line Brad,,,i will open the "lets take a shot at TWS" booth sometime around noon
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  11. #26
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    tws,

    honestly, no one here really cares who came first. this is a pure novelty that i posted to foster some light discussion. if you're ****ed off that other people like this book's author make claims as such, whoopdie ****. take it up with those who are making the claims.

    the notion that columbus was the first here was disproved long ago -- the first time a first-grader asked his teacher, "but how could columbus have discubbered merica if the injuns were already here?" the fact that columbus didn't hit the main continent has been known for years. the fact that the norse beat him by a longshot is common knowledge. the idea that other cultures hit up the westside has long been in circulation, be it from polynesia, mainland asia or anywhere else.

    you seem to take this a bit personally, assuming some kind of first people's status makes your opinion any more valid on this issue than anyone else's. fact is, no one knows when the specific ancestors of native peoples came over here anyway. there were several opportunities, so who's to say that those who founded the tribes you trace yourself back to came here with first batch?

    there is no legitimate pride in being first, other than one can claim that his or her ancestors were the first folks to say, "****, it's cold here. let's go somewhere else."

    the going argument is that every one of us hatched from the same batch, the eldest example of which i believe was found in ethiopia. i guess that means we're all tied.

    except eulerfan. being a woman, she's from another planet entirely.

    back to columbus -- his kindness toward those he labeled as "indians" was a bit lacking, and those tribes that encountered him suffered badly. columbus day has less to do with christopher columbus as it does with the beginning of an influx of europeans to this continent -- an influx that was the start of this whole country. if america was dominated by and based on the cultures of native peoples, we still might have a columbus day, but it'd be more to celebrate the day he was killed for being a thief, liar, possible murderer, etc. america, and the world, would be a wholly different place had that influx not happened, but it did, and columbus was set aside as an easy icon.
    " i wonder how many people take their post bone marrow transplant antibiotics with amberbock" -- GDA

  12. #27
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    hmmm, interesting, but I think the Norse have them both beat.

    Not to nitpick here Willow, but those "celtic" ruins are actually supposedly "nordic" ruins. There is common confusion since the Celts were almost as bad as the romans in pillaging another cultures beliefs and arts.
    Last edited by red5angel; 01-14-2003 at 03:59 PM.
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  13. #28
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    HAVE YOU?
    No I haven't. I never said he was right or wrong.
    I should've known you'd roll you eyes. God forbid the mighty TWS should have to explain his childish insults. Try acting like an adult for once in your life and backing up your arguements. Your entire argument boils down to this so far:

    1.There maybe some old "celtic" ruins in Kentucky
    2.Serpent mound in Ohio
    3.Columbus landed in the Carribian
    4.You're part "Indian"

    What any of this has to do with Chinese posibly landing in North America is beyond me.
    Last edited by Brad; 01-14-2003 at 04:09 PM.

  14. #29
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    Red face

    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  15. #30
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    Anyway, back to the topic, have any of you read the book yet? If so, what were your thoughts? There's a big display for it at B&N here, so I thought about picking up a copy this weekend.

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