Anyone ever watch TLC?

[reneritchie]

I was watching TLC the other night and they had a special on "The Vikings". In a nutshell, though there were written accounts of Vikings having sacked the northparts of the British Isles, looted monestaries and raided villages, etc. since there was no archeological evidence, they could not be considered factual.

So, archeologists went in to investigate. They found combs of Pictish descent, usually of red deer horn, but some of reindeer which would have to have come from Vikings, since reindeer are not native to the BI. They also found some buildings not in the usual round Pictish style, but in the long Viking style. They also found remains with what appeared to be sword wounds, even some in what had been a monastary. They found places that had Viking derived names to this day, rather than those of British origin, which would suggest the natives had been expunged completely.

Yet, throughout, even as the evidence mounted, the archeologists, anthropologists, and historical researchers were *very* careful with their words. They said "suggests", "leads me believe", "indicates that perhaps", "likely could have", etc. They never once said "fact", never once "truth". And, there were different and opposing views and deductions based on the evidence -- and it was done respectfully and professionally.

TLC, Discovery Channel, History Channel... all of these can serve as examples for those who claim interest in WCK origins and developments. Martial artists have to deal with enough misconceptions; from Da Da Saat Saat to images of the Karate Kid, to worse. And our lineages themselves work against us, as we are encouraged to accept tall tales and defer, sometimes, to the worst of authority. But this is the 21st century, and we struggle now to transcend old mentalities even as we seek to understand them.

If we can't, it will be up to the next generation, but it will be a sad legacy to not even to have tried.

RR

[black and blue]

Rene,

Having read your post here, and those you've had with Geezer, it has become clear to me you want to change nationality.

Just be done with it... come to the UK, we've got old bones galore and hundreds of nutters just begging for a slapping... and while you're at it, start up a Sum Nung WCK Kwoon over here.

Picts and Vikings ROCK!

[Geezer]

B&B Wrote>

Just be done with it... come to the UK, we've got old bones galore and hundreds of nutters just begging for a slapping

Thing is about the UK, you're supposed to let Society take care of you and then if you do some slapping because someone assaults you, the victim is normally the one that goes to jail.

Atleast over here you have the "Consitution Of Rights" , someone breaks into your house you can blow them away and then get Milk and Cookies from the Police, not like poor ol Tony Martin

Rene, you need to come down here

Sheldon

[black and blue]

Someone has a go - you slap them left and right - the coppers drag you off - you find yourself in prison with EVEN MORE NUTTERS looking for a d@mn good thumping

Ahhh, Mad Dogs and all that! And what the scooby are you doing in the Land of the Free, eh?

Rene - don't listen to this man - he's fled our sandy (??) shores - a man not to be trusted. We have a TV programme called Time Team... they're always digging up bones, and one of the diggers is a honey... yet more incentive to buy that ticket!

In short: "All your bones are belong to us!"

B&B

Ps. Did I mention, Picts and Vikings ROCK.

[reneritchie]

My ancestors long ago left the emerald shores of Ireland and the highlands of Scotland for a life in the colonies and while I will visit on occasion, I shan't be darkening the old world ere long with my presence. And as for the independant US, while I also like to visit, I can't endure the endless insurance adds on TV, nor the expense of any illness, and so I try to withstand the bitter (-30c as of late) cold of Canada, which has some of the best and worst of both powers.

RR

[Geezer]

B&B Wrote>

And what the scooby are you doing in the Land of the Free, eh?

Grandfather was a Rear Gunner in the B17s during WW2 and stationed in the UK, to be blunt my grandmother got knocked up he was shipped back and she didn't want to live in the US. My Dad as a result grew up in kids homes in London and found my Grandfather in 78. (Very short Version )
I moved here in 96, wanted a change and haven't looked back.

I still love the fact, I have the "Right To Bear Arms"

Sheldon

[byond1]

hhhmmmm..thats why i like you ren....a fellow blarney kisser....
reallly good post and really good point...your post is the "truth"
so waht aboot another friend ship seminar? we need you to visit in the states rene.....give a yks seminar.....i persoanly will supply you with a place to stay (in ohio)(im not joking) if you hurry(before i move)....a beautiful sofa couch awaits you in the spacious 6 bedroom duplex i inhabit. numerous kung fu movies and books are available for your comfort as well as some stout ale. eh? im at ohio state university..so we can chi sao and check out chicks....jet li's sifu teachs wushi here as well....

[Phil Redmond]

You're right. That goes for most WC history/lineages.
btw, I see my share of insurance commercials when I'm in Canada on the weekends....grin.
Phil

[Bolt]

Well, now that this thread has finally come full circle - back to the original post issue ....

Rene's issue is certainly not confined to WC lineages and from what I've been exposed to over the last year or so, it seems to me that many are taking the position of accepting variables and "other" possibilities of origin and lineage. There's still some staunch hold outs, but I'm encouraged by the fact that the momentum seems to be swinging in the proper direction.

I predict that as "wushu", as a demonstration art / olympic event / entertainment style / commercial art becomes more popular (as it's intended) the more tradtional "kung fu" styles will open their arms to their own families more broadly. ....and yes, I recognize that I'm using the terms wushu and kung fu quite loosely but these seem to be the current "understandings" of these terms and not really their true translations or definitions.

Just my observations & .02

[reneritchie]

Byond1 - Top o' the mornin to ya! Sure'n'I kissed the blarney stone once o' twice in me lifetime, yeah!

There are tentive plans for another Friendship Seminar this year in the midwest (Chicago-ish, I believe). We had one scheduled for New York in late 2000 but for obvious reasons we didn't go ahead with that. 2001 proved difficult for personal reasons for some of the presenters, so it has been a while.

Personally, to tangent off to a trollish comment about "sour grapes" it was never my intent to do many of them, nor to publish much or do seminars. To quote a phrase, rather than curse the dark, I tried to light a candle and get things going. It was my (our) hope just to raise the topic of other lineages and get the ball going so that those lineages could then promote themselves. I think, in this, we were successful, and with people like Jim Roselando with Pien San, Hendrik Santo with Cho Ga, and Andreas Hoffmann with Chi Sim, our grapes have turned out sweet indeed! Let's face it, other than ego, there's no reason for me or anyone else to want to do it for the groups themselves (who have the information and can do a much better job on their own). That's why there's no "Complete Wing Chun Institute" or "CWC the Video Tutor Series in 108 volumes". That the abovementioned people are better accepted and have a wider audience than they may otherwise have had is all we were ever after. And to bring it all back into focus, that's why you probably won't see me doing YKS seminars at the mall near you.

As to the main point, everyone knows *real* researchers are *very* careful with how they phrase things because they know, in the end (which could well be 50 or 100 years later) their reputations depend on it. Like with the current "clone babies" scandle, egg on the face is not something professionals want to have to constantly worry about (tabloids aside) and so they make sure they have their ducks in a row, and if they claim "fact" or "truth" they darn sure make sure they have the evidence published to back it up (independantly and repeatedly in pure science).

Phil - Ah yes, I remember you are one of those stealing our super-hot Canadian women! LOL! And I'm not surprised you see those commericals. With cable and satalite, we get the US channels now! (Just saw Johnny Cochrane offering his services for hit and run today! Yeesh!)

Bolt - Yup, we can hope. History is funny in that anyone can write it (the PRC won WW2 before the Allies, if you didn't know), but time and human nature have the most remarkable ways of correcting things. Personally, I'm very interested to see where people stand in 10 years, and if new information doesn't come to light about old "facts" and "truths".

RR