what do you guys think of kung fu?

[Felipe Bido]

Most Kung Fu styles are excellent. The problem nowadays is that most people don't want to train hard, the way it is supposed to be. They find more useful to learn about past masters, and chi tales.

I was surprised the first time I saw a bunch of Muay Thai guys training...****, they were kicking, and kneeing and elbowing, until they couldn't go on. It was like a military camp. I bet the pads suffer more than they do. You don't see that in 95% of the Kung Fu schools out there.

MMA guys are excellent fighters, because they train their asses off, practice what they preach, and test their skills everytime. Real MMA fighters are not afraid to admit their own weaknesses and work to improve. Only trolls and fanatics think that the style is superior, not the training.

Most MA traditionalists don't want to deal with the consequences of practicing fighting or real attacks. They only love forms to show off and get girls. That's why Royce (Amen!!) surprised the whole bunch of opponents by getting into the fight once the bell rang. He had the mindset of a real fighter. So much for being hopping around and throwing silly kicks.

If you practice Kung Fu, my advice is to train like hell, test it everytime, and you'll have a deadly style. Isn't that what you wanted in first place?

If you want to be spiritual, practice yoga.

[Oso]

I train and teach kung fu but have to agree with Merryprankster
and MightyB on most counts. Right now the mma arenas are
the closest to the real thing as you can get.

It's the way you train and use what you know.

You have to train realistically and until you either puke, bleed
or pass out.

Then you have to apply what you know in real life, morally and
ethically.

I was a bouncer for 7 years and applied what I new fairly
succesfully. Not to say I didn't screw up a couple of times but
that was me, not what I study. I've disarmed guys with knives,
tire irons, pool sticks and bottles and was later able to recall
what movements/techniques I used to do so and link it back
to specific training drills.

CSN, I hope you are mostly joking. I agree about Bruce Lee and
hold the opinion that Bruce Lee was probably ADD and couldn't
handle the slow approach most CMA systems use and didn't get
to more advanced training and theory.

As far as deadliness...I'm not sure what is more deadly than
being smashed to the ground and beaten senseless. Once you
are unconscious you don't have much of a defense. The mma
guys are training to accept a certain amount of punishment on
the way to the clinch then take you down and hurt you. Simple,
fast and effective. CMA IS playing catchup to that sort of training.
CMA has the ability to teach it's practitioners to take damage;
take the opponent down or out; and finish them if necessary.

I think CMA has to shake some of the mysticism and secrecy that
plagues it and get down to some training with what it has.

This is not to say that all CMA schools and teachers fall into this
category. But, if there were more CMA schools that trained to
fight and fight hard then we would see better represention in
fighting events from the CMA crowd.

all this is of course, just my humble opinion

Matt

[Suntzu]

he||… most anybody wont survive REAL contact in the streets… the GOOD FIGHTER(TM)… kin to the GOOD GRAPPLER(TM)… might survive the occassional bar fight or playground scuffle… but a crime committed by a criminal… that throws the rules away… gun, knife, pipe... cender block... car... talk about illusion... for the most part MA whether 'mixed' or 'traditional'... is now relegated to recreation... its just how far u wanna push it... exercise? forms? ring? cage? bar?the need to follow a spiritual leader?

[Suntzu]

Most Kung Fu styles are excellent. The problem nowadays is that most people don't want to train hard, the way it is supposed to be. They find more useful to learn about past masters, and chi tales. I was surprised the first time I saw a bunch of Muay Thai guys training...****, they were kicking, and kneeing and elbowing, until they couldn't go on. It was like a military camp. I bet the pads suffer more than they do. You don't see that in 95% of the Kung Fu schools out there

exactly...

They only love forms to show off and get girls.

It must be the PJ's…

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Suntzu
he||… most anybody wont survive REAL contact in the streets… the GOOD FIGHTER(TM)… kin to the GOOD GRAPPLER(TM)… might survive the occassional bar fight or playground scuffle… but a crime committed by a criminal… that throws the rules away… gun, knife, pipe... cender block... car... talk about illusion... for the most part MA whether 'mixed' or 'traditional'... is now relegated to recreation... its just how far u wanna push it... exercise? forms? ring? cage? bar?the need to follow a spiritual leader?

nicely said.

[Stranger]

It must be the PJ's…

They worked for Hugh Hefner.

[Suntzu]

Originally posted by Stranger


They worked for Hugh Hefner.

the $$millions$$ didn't hurt either…

Ap - after getting beat on at full power for the past year… the mysticism tends to wear off… and reality becomes painfully obvious…

[ShaolinTiger00]

Ap - after getting beat on at full power for the past year… the mysticism tends to wear off… and reality becomes painfully obvious…

I'm so proud of you. *tear*

[Stranger]

the $$millions$$ didn't hurt either…

Ah yes, that critical ingredient that changes a man walking around in his pajamas from insane to desirable in the eyes of women.

[MightyB]

I don't think CSN was being serious, he's just tired of this kind've recurring thread.

Personally, I think that this kind of thread is good just by looking at how the answers are changing over time. In the beginning, there were a lot of excuses based on mysticism and make believe (much like CSN's post) and not enough accountability being taken for bad training. Nowadays, most people are agreeing that it's mostly poor work ethics and fanatical denial that's keeping some CMA in the dark ages, but most progressive schools are developing real combat effective skills based on their traditional school's foundation. That's what they were intended for in the past, and that's what they will once again be in the future. Right now we're just stuck in that luke-warm middle area where a lot of mistakes and progress will be made, it's just going to take some time to iron out the details.

Now, about Hef's PJs...

[apoweyn]

Ap - after getting beat on at full power for the past year… the mysticism tends to wear off… and reality becomes painfully obvious…

yeah. aren't relationships grand.

...

what?

kung fu?

oh.

er, yeah. d*mn right!

[red5angel]

I don't buy that it has been mostly relegated to sport or recreation, or I should say, made obsolete by modern times. I have seen it come into play more often then not in too many fights. Sure if the guy has a gun then yes it becomes a moot point.
I think it has been relegated to sport for exctly that attitude and the others that were listed. I just get tired of hearing so called martial artist ramble on about spirituality or how much more in tune they are with the universe they are now that they are on the 5th form of some-fu. I am about thisclose to kicking the next guys a$$ who starts yapping at me about the death moves he learned way back when learning under some guy whoes name he can't remember.

[MightyB]

You should see my death moves that I learned a few years back from this guy... but I can't seem to remember his name but he was old and Chinese.

[red5angel]

MightyB, I think you hit something on dead on.

"but most progressive schools are developing real combat effective skills based on their traditional school's foundation. That's what they were intended for in the past"

I tihnk all the mysticism bs was a sign of the times. I think all the forms, all the drills etc.. were at some point tested through real or mostly real combat.
What cracks me up about CMA is that you hear all these stories about guys going out anf fighting really fighting and testing what they know in a fight but now a days all you get is alot of stuttering about being civil and not wanting to get hurt. What I hear is fear, enough to even stop a good portion of these guys from getting out there with some gloves and some light pads and going all out, see if what they have can pass the test.


MB - I think I owe you a few death move demonstrations at some point

[apoweyn]

red5angel,

well, i think suntzu has a good point in that while martial arts may once have been cutting edge technology for personal combat, that's no longer the case. those for whom personal combat is an issue have found other ways. primarily the military. and you obviously know their modern-day solutions to the question.

that leaves regular folks. they're the ones carrying the martial arts torch these days. so in a time when martial arts isn't the best tool for combat and martial artists aren't generally the combatants anyway, then the role has changed a bit. whether that role now focuses on recreation, spirituality (which i have no problem with, done in a not-insipid way), self defense (which is still a very different bag from military-style conflict), etc. is up to the individual, i suppose. but i agree with suntzu's point that the martial arts are relegated to a different position than before. for many of us, a far more casual one. if it were a military affair, the intensity of our training would be mandated by necessity. now, it's mandated by personal choice.


stuart b.