OT: Police shoot unarmed 12-year old

[fa_jing]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030128_679.html

If this is legally justifiable, it shows the huge gap between the law and common morality.

[red5angel]

It's sad, and I hate to trivialize the death of someone but here is my take on this:

The kid was doing something wrong, so he knew the police may get involved. He didn't expect to be shot or killed I am sure but the police carry guns and it is a possibility.
The police have a dangerous job which leads them into many unknowns, and when a gun shot is heard, whether it was an accident or not you have to cover yourself. It's sad but this sort of accident can happen and I think if you are killed while carryiong out criminal activity, you have accpeted a certain level of responsibility for your life, because accidents liek these can happen.

[fa_jing]

I guess police regulations say that if you hear a shot, and can't identify the source, you are justified in popping the guy you are chasing? Seems awfully wrong. Sounds more like the one PO panicked - which is usually my impression from these kinds of controversial police shootings.

I think there ought to be some kind of accountability for f'ing up this badly. Then again, maybe people wouldn't want to be police officers anymore. Part of the perks is that you get to lord it over other people, intimidate who you please, pull U-turns or run red lights for no reason at all, and get the benefit of the doubt when you do something wrong in your duties.

My apologies to all of the Police Officers out there who are good human beings and provide great service to the community.

[Braden]

Would the verdict be the same if the shooter was a 'regular civilian' and not a police officer?

Should police officers have special rights regarding murder?

Just food for thought...

The situation is very unfortunate.

[red5angel]

fa_jing, unless you are in full posession of the facts I would reserve judgement. There are alot of good policemen out there and these guys may have been some of them. It's easy to make a judgement call when you aren't putting your life on the line like they are.
You're right there are those who abuse it but I doubt this was intentional. Maybe something could have been done, but the fact is the kid was committing a crime and to me that is a contract with society taking a certain level of responsibility for your actions. It sucks that you get shot when you probably didn't deserve it, but hey, sometimes you have to take your medicine. If this was a genuine accident, I don't blame the cops involved at all, except to say maybe more training would have helped, but that isn't necessarily their choice.

Braden - I think it would have been different if it were a civilian, civilians don't have the same accountabiltiy as police officers. A policemans job is to protect and serve and sometimes that recquires they use deadly force. Murder is murder, but I don't see this as murder.

[Braden]

A 'civilian' can also legally use deadly force, can't they?

[Ford Prefect]

It's BS. The have radio's and he could have verified where the shot had come from. When chasing a little kid, I'd hope the PO would exercise caution rather than a shoot-first-ask-questions-later mentality.

[Ford Prefect]

Red5angle,

Actually, a supreme court ruling in Maryland found that the police are not responsible for personal protection. It is the individual's choice to protect himself or not. In the case of deadly force, it is authorized in civilian situation when your life is in danger. You are allowed to use "just enough force to repel the attack" in terms of self-defense.

[red5angel]

Braden, under very specific circumstances yes. Policemen are given more lattitude because it is a part of their job, a responsibility they have accpeted, for whatever their personal reason might be. It's like a soldier, as a soldier you have taken the responisibility on for killing if your country calls on you, and that is why war crimes are so hard to prosecute, where do you draw the line?

Ford - Again, I don't think you are in posession of the facts and unless you are a policemen can only guess at the mentality inolved in such a situation.


I know this whole thread is going ot turn into "cops suck" and "down with the man" but I think those sorts of views are extremely ignorant. Sorry guys, I can't buy that everytime someone gets shot, the police are to blame.

[Braden]

Do you think those differences are actually differences in fundamental/legal rights, or simply differences in the amount of time each kind of person finds themself in situations where everyone is allowed to use deadly force?

[Water Dragon]

Ya know what's funny in a sick, sad way?

A dog gets popped in TN and the whole country is in an uproar.

A 12 year old child gets popped, and people are trying to justify it.

pitiful; yet typical

[red5angel]

in my opinion they are fundamental legal differences but for the reason that policemen have to spend more time in situations where deadly force might be used.
It's like this, why not just take some guys, give them guns, and then tell them that they can do what they have to to keep the peace but they are held as accountable as any other person in society.
I am not saying that the police are exempt but that they are udner different circumstances and so must be looked at differently. this means to me that they are going to be more scrutinized then a civilian in the actions they take, but that they must be given some leeway in acepting that sometimes things happen the wrong way and there is not a whole lot anyone can do.

Take doctors, people sue them for malpractice all the time. So and so went into the operating room and never made it. So lets sue. But Doctors are people too, and if it is found that the doctor did what he could, even if he made a mistake, thats an aspect of his career that he has been willing to accept and people need to understand that they are still human beings.

[Ford Prefect]

Red5angel,

I obviously don't have all the facts regarding this case, but I am quite experienced in the use of firearms. I can understand the officer fearing for his life after hearing the shot and wanting to end the threat if the perp was a a grown man. However the odds of a 12-year old boy being able to accurately discharge a firearm while moving and trying to hit a moving target are slim-to-none. Morally and ethically, he should be obligated to at least verify if any other officer discharged his weapon or knows where the shot came from. Guns aren't these magic killing machines.

[Ford Prefect]

I agree that there are differences in civilian and law enforcement situations. I think police officers have a tough job (have quite a few cops and ff's in my family) and will get put into situations that are not only hard to control but are hard to identify exactly what the he11 is happenning. That being said, no officer is justified in shooting a 12-year old kid in the back because he heard a shot and figured it had to be the fleeing suspect. I guarantee you that the majority of cops will agree privately.

[red5angel]

Ford - "but I am quite experienced in the use of firearms."

Nooffense but I don't see how that is pertinant in the least. You want to talk about familiarity with firearms, lets just say 4 years on a Marine anti-terrorist unit will give you some 'familiarity' with firearms. However, that isn't the issue, it's the psychology of the situation that is at issue here. The action taken implies that either the second cop assumed his partner had to shoot for a reason, or that the person running had taken the shot. Either one is highly possible.
The accuracy isn't at question here either. For my own experience most people who fire a gun at 8 ft hit less then 12% of their targets under the stress of a fire fight. Did the cop know who or what he was dealing with? My guess would be not since he chose to fire.
I tell you what, I will pose your question to the cop class at the school I am going to tonight. Tuesday nights at 8:30 is the special class for policemen and I will stay after and ask them what they think of the situation and get back to you. I am also going to email my 3 cop friends right now and I will let you kow how they feel as well. That way we have some real opinions to draw on instead of someones "opinions" on what cops would say.