Shaolin In Music

[8StepStudent]

Hey guys. I just wanted an answer. That's all. I didn't mean to start a fight about Buddhism.

[Shaolin Master]

1. Prajna Paramita Sutra - Diamond Sutra
2. The Red Surmon Sutra
3. Sutra of Hui Neng.

Whether you beleive that you are following the way or whether you do the way. Whether rules guide or mislead you.

In Buddhism it is taught to constrict mentality to train it up, then to let it go (as it has the prerequisite of understanding).Like Taoists use confucianism for youth Taoism for adulthood as the seemingly open attitude of taoism does not contribute good practice for youth.

In Buddhism by reverring Holy ones based on their position in the heirachy one may become like all else deluded. Just like reverring Buddha.

Keep constricting your thoughts it is good you may enter the path by endless suffering, death and rebirth.

In Chan Buddhism one enters through understanding and reason.

Anyway It is useless to talk about it with you as you may not understand.

Enjoy reading the above Sutra's if you do not have them ask me I will pass a copy to you.

Regards to you and enojoy your life.

But also understand that all individuals are part of the wheel as much as you are and that the closed eyed following of Sutras and ideals is just like that of all entities ...different but same. But I respect you for beleiving in something take care and regards to your teachers.

In reality I have no words to explain ...for it is only you that can understand

Regards & Peace

Shi Chan Long

For knowledge sake solely-
51st Descendant of the LingShu division of Chan (Hui Neng's Lineage)

The anatomy feature was for fun (thus all the smiles) lighten up relax.

[brokenfist]

Taijimantis, thank you for the intelligent response. It's good to see a few coherent responses that don't end up in ****ing contests.
I was half-joking about the macrobiotics, when I was in Aikido, some of the students were macrobiotics, and would tell me that all my pains were associated with eating red meat. It was all in fun. Again thank you.

"I got no dukes" -the goat

[Taijimantis]

I do not wish to provoke anything other than intelligent conversation.
I do not profess to have all the answers.
I think that the human body is a miraculous thing. I think that if we would just shut up and listen to it we would find ourselves understanding so much more!

As far as this post goes, there is no arguement, because I am not arguing. My opinion about Shi Yanming is that in MY personal view of Buddhism, if he is indeed commercializing, and profiting on the religion and his occupation and position within it, then it is indeed sad.

But I cannot say anything about his mastery of Kungfu. He obviously is highly skilled and a very respected teacher.

Again, peace and serentiy brothers and sisters.

Namaste

[HuangKaiVun]

8stepstudent, don't feel uneasy. This is a great discussion!

Taijimantis, what you're reading from me cannot be found in any book or sutra. This is exactly what ShaolinMaster was talking about.

Just because somebody's actions and beliefs don't match up with yours (I'm not talking about Taijimantis in particular) does not necessarily make it less valid.

That is the Buddhist way.

[Taijimantis]

That is correct.

While I never would say that any one individual is wrong outright, it is in my opinion (stress opinion) wrong for a human being to harm, intentionally, or through neglegence, another living, sentient being.

I never have been one to wholly and blindly devote myself to the study of scripture or sutra.

I find many of the "modern" disciplines of so-called Buddhism to be dualistic, and therefore contrary and conflicting with the very messages they are professing.

Buddhism is like a car. I guess if you feel it is necissary to travel in a Ferrari or stretch limo to get where you are going I can from my standpoint roll my eyes and shake my head. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
I shouldnt, but I may.
As for me, Ill get where I have to go in my rusted out pinto, thanx.

Namaste
: [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[8stepsifu]

So buddists can eat the meat of an already downed animal......two questions

1. Could I employ the services of a pelican, a hawk, or a team of attack dogs to hunt for me?

2. Do animals get bad karma from eating meat? Do all dogs go to heaven only if they eat tofu?

3. What if your extra thankfull to the dead animal? What about plants? They are living creatures too, if you drive a car, your destroying living animals (cute ones) and destroying the Earth.

8Step Sifu

[meltdawn]

Since we have a few different views of buddhists responding, I’d love to have the chance to ask some questions of you all. Let me state that I practice no religion, nor do I claim to understand the doctrines of any.

First, I would like to know your views on the evolution of Asian martial arts predominantly within religious communities. Is it sufficient to say that monks needed to protect themselves, then through the teaching and understanding of the classics also became healthier, so continued the training? Or is there a more esoteric meaning, like only one who knows death can live, only one who knows hurt can heal?

Second, is ritualistic behavior (i.e. burning incense, keeping buddhas, mantras) important to you and why? And if so, how does it benefit your martial arts?

Third, I’d like to know some opinions of the current state of relation between buddhism and emerging capitalism in China. On the surface, these two seem at odds with one another, like buddhism and martial arts. Is one doomed to be subjugated by the other in a cycle of birth and death, or will one rise to balance its opposite?

Meltdawn

[Paul DiMarino]

8 Step Sifu,

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right as this is just coming from a few semesters of philosophy in college, but I believe animals can eat meat because they are... well, animals and their instincts tell them too. If you are trying to transcend from animalistic things, then you may try to transcend from animilistic temptations. (ie be civilized) For example, say you are getting into a crowded elevator, and the most gorgeous girl you have ever seen squeezes in infront of you. Every one of your senses is being invaded by this girl... Every natural instinct in your body will be yelling at you to test out her guard right there in the elevator, but denying those natural instincts for a common good is what being human or "decent" is all about.

Buddhists may look upon eating meat the same way... Sure, we are equipped for the job, our instincts are telling us to, and it's **** good, but to them it just isn't civilized and wouldn't be proper. It all comes down to a matter of choice; free will is a great thing. Some people choose to obey their instincts, others choose to deny them. Worst of all, some people are still slaves to their instincts. Mostly, we end up calling these people "convict".

Hope that made a little sense. I'm writing this while trying to woof down food for lunch at work. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Taijimantis]

I will answer your questions in order, to the best of my ability according to what I have been taught.

1. by "employing the services" of another animal to do your "dirty work" you are actually using the animal as you would a gun or bow. The animal is now a weapon, your intent is to kill your prey.
Karma is more than something that happens to you afteryou commit an act, karma involves everything taking place within you at that moment. Examine your intent. If your intent is to harm then the karmic outcome will be bad for you.

2. Animals gain karma just like human beings do. However, animals are not necissarily subject to allof the same rules we are. Your actions in your life will determine your existence in the next. Human beings are the only entities according to our teachings (I have heard of some Buddhist sects accounting for animals as enlightened beings) who can attain Nirvana.
Thus, an animal specifically designed for the hunting and consumation of flesh need not be subjected to the same rules as a human.
What was the animal'sintent in taking the life of its prey?

3. Being thankfull to the dead animal for what? For dying? This one I am not sure I understand. If you kill the animal and are then thankfull what does that accomplish? The wheel of life may continue, but we do not have the right to interfere with the individual being's learning process. We should not step in and take the life of something prematurely, as we do not know at what point in their individual learning process they are. That would be like playing a comuter roll playing game for like a year, and then have someone pull the plug or force the system to crash before you can find out the end... the lesson has not been learned and we may cause that being to go to a realm or return in a form they would not have otherwise. Does that help?

4. As for the plant thing I explained earlier that plants are not recognized as "sentient" life. I guess the simplist (though not really the most accurate) way of explaining this is though the plant has life energy, it does not have a soul.

5. Finally, yes, driving a car is an incredibly violent act. I personally drive as little as possible, especially in my truck. Ordinarily I will take my wife's car which is smaller and more fuel efficient. I ride a bike or I walk when I can. But I am still guilty. There are Buddhists who will not move at night for fear of stepping on things and killing them. Likewise it is intent. You cannot (according to my teaching) incur bad karma if you do not recognize something as a sentient being. That does not mean you can try and convince yourself that the spider in the corner is not a sentient being to justify smashing it.
Likewise your intent when you drive a vehicle is not to kill as many things as possible is it?
Though it isnt the best choice it is the greater good that matters.
We drive a lot to take my daughter(who has many neurological disharmonies) to her medical appointments and therapy. This is an act of love and compassion.
I drive to the donation centers where I give blood and palasma, it is simply too far to walk.
In this society it is impossible to get away without some sort of transport. Just remember the intent. And be mindful of the moment.

I hope these helped my friend.

Namaste.

[Taijimantis]

Taiji Mantis@aol.com
Drop me a line, I can send you an exerpt of my books second chapter regarding the relationship between Martial Arts and Religion.

[HuangKaiVun]

Meltdawn, I can only answer from MY perspective.

As far as martial evolution in my Buddhist mind is concerned, I learned early on that the physical motions of Shaolin kung fu point to deeper truths (can't be explained, but I'll take a stab at it: "Tao").

Throughout history, the Shaolin monks have realized that maximizing one's awareness and manipulation of the "Tao" can be effectively accomplished by constantly expanding one's kung fu repertoire.

Hence even today, Shaolin monks have been known to practice Western Boxing and NHB style grappling. To them (as well as myself), the source of the lesson is less important than the lesson itself.


I believe that ritualistic behavior is very important for ANYONE. Yet I don't do anything specifically (i.e. burning candles, etc. . .)

This philosophy is best summed up by the Buddhist who stated "My master is incredible. When he is tired, he sleeps. When he is hungry, he eats".

My "ritual" is living each moment fully.


As far as capitalism and Shaolin Buddhism in China goes, I would say that both exist in a symbiotic relationship.

I won't get into the details of it due to space constraint

[Shaolin Master]

“Ch’an (Zen) belongs to neither past, present nor future. It has always been the way it is, and it can’t be expressed through words.”

“Everything under Heaven, Be it large or small, important or insignificant, has its own particular place and when it arrives in its rightful place, why ask why ? That is just how it is”

“Enlightenment, Self Cultivation and our daily activities are all part of the same thing. It is esential to understand the fact of enlightenment, and it is the maintenance of this attitude that is self cultivation. It is not because of self cultivation that we gain enlightenment.”

“Buddha nature is the original nature of all things. The true meaning of Ch’an(Zen) is to gain insight into the entire universe as it is and to be one with the truth. “

“By seeking the Buddha, we lose the Buddha. In seeking Bodhidharma we lose Bodhidharma. The most precious thing there resides inside you - it is yourself. In pursuing external objects or entities we lose sight of the self.”

Peace

Shi Chan Long

[grasshopper]

I too am practicing the Venerable Gotoma's way and what I see is that alot of you are forgetting that it is a way of acceptance of others,thier spiritual AND personal beliefs.don't condemn any one for marrying,eating meat, etc.that's thier right and choice.Buddhas acceptance is what drew me to his teaching,frankly I got sick of all the other belief systems claiming thiers is the ONLY way.(kinda like the biasts of m/a systems in here)any ways just respect the paths of others and you'll make yours richer.
thanks,bless you all.

"stop trying to hit me and HIT ME"

[Taijimantis]

I stressed over and over that what I was saying came from my teaching...

If I offended I apologize.

I do need to add that though Buddhism is accepting, it is not a free ticket to do as you will.

Karma Brothers and sisters!

Im done.

Namaste,