Northern Shaolin styles

[cha kuen]

Cha kuen is another famous northern shaolin style. I haven't seen too many sifus in the States teaching it. Jason Tsou, Paul Eng, Wong Jack Man and Master Zhang know sets from the cha kuen style. They are different from the hong or shaolin style. I've learned #6 and #7 from the Hong or shaolin style. I'd have to say that the Cha Kuen forms that I have learned are more advanced and smoother.

[Ironpig]

BeiQuan:

Yes, we learn the names of movements in the forms. Like "kicking up dust" "suppress the earth""monk carries the pole""cannon mounted on a beam" and so on. It can be confusing to learn the names with the form.

We practice individual "hand techniques", but I have never heard it called "18 hands". Maybe I am not advanced enough in the system.

I have learned Tan Tui, Lien Bu, Darn Dao, Duan Da Chuan, king of nine provinces staff,Mei Hua chuan (with every set the original sets seem smaller)

I have not heard them numbered before like that.

My staff set is out of order for us, normally it is Sil Lum Gunn, or "shaolin staff", which I have been told is fairly common to the style.

I have a web page with my notes on it, but I think it is fairly incomplete, as I am only a junior student. ;) and I would like to get better information on it before making it available to the world.

I really appreciate the history lessons being posted lately in this and other forums. Especially the history of the forms from the Hung Ga practitioners and northern shaolin people.

Heh, I think I answered some of your questions.

Just some more pennies from a pig

IronPig

[ShaolinMantis]

Jaguar Wong :
Ah I thought so. I was not sure if your Sifu was still teaching. Good that he is. Oh BTW that would make me your Sibak. Is your school going to Lomita-shaolin school this weekend? Just curious.

you can reply offline so not to bore everyone

sibak@shao-lin-dao.com

ShaolinMantis-I
aka FuRenChu

ShaolinMantis-I

[NorthernShaolin]

It is exciting to see so many people practicing Northern Shaolin. We are all cousins, brothers and uncles. I would like to share some info about our style that I have obtained over the past 35 years.

In 1902 in Chiang Su Province, Kuo Yu Chang was first introduced to Northern Shaolin by his father, Kuo Li Chih, and he started to learn 10 row tam tui. However, two years later, at the age of 14 years old, his father past away before KYC could finish. In his death bed, he told KYC to finish his school and then to seek out his classmate, Yim Chi Wen in Shantung province, and finish learning Northern Shaolin. KYC could not wait and left school two years later at the age of 16 and went to seek out Yim Chi Wen (nickname Great Spear Yim). For the next eleven years he and his cousin Pa Ching Hsiang learned from Great Spear Yim. KYC returned home only to find his mother passed away.

Originally KYC learned the 10 Northern Shaolin sets in its numerical order, one to ten. Before Kuo Yu Chang learned the 10 Northern Shaolin sets they were known by their names only and were not numbered. Many of the students got confused and so the sets were referred by numbers as they learned them. Hence the first set they learned in the series was number one because the name, Open Door, implies that the set is an introduction to the style and Northern Shaolin is about using various leg techniques. What better way to be introduced to the style than to learn all the kicking methods in the style. As all of you are aware there are 36 kicks in this set. Each set has a specific name because the essence of the set is demonstrating specific attacking techniques of the style. For example, in number four, Chest Attacks, the set teaches one how to attack the opponent’s center line. In number two , lead the way, it demonstrating how to attack your opponent by side stepping , angling your attacks and sliding into your opponent.

It was not until KYC started teaching in KwangTung in 1929 that he realized the his students were having a difficult time learning NSL. He then reorganized the sequence of teaching the sets and came up with the current sequence of 6,7,8,5,4 1,2,3,9 and then 10. KYC also added Lien Bo set (from Wu Chih Ch’ing) which was a standard set in the National Martial Arts Provincial schools and since KYC was one of the head Instructors, he added it to his curriculum. His top two disciples Lung Tzu Hsaing and Yim Shan Wu continued the sequence. YSW developed his own set, Sil Wah which is patterned after Ching Wu’s Kung Lic, and added to our current curriculum. Wong Jack learned from YSW and was the first to bring the NSL to North America. Because Wong Jack was affiliated with Ching Wu Association he replaced 10 row tam tui with Ching Wu standard 12 row. He also added to the curriculum some of Ching Wu’s sets such as NSL Lo Han, and other various weapons. Over a period of 36 years he has modified the sequence order to 6,7,8,5, 4, 3,2,1, 9,10.

The NSL sets are divided into two levels with 6,7,8,5,4 composing the lower level and 1,2,3,9,and 10 consisting the upper level. Over 50 years ago many NSL disciples regarded the upper level sets as their prized sets and always demonstrated them. Today we see NSL students demonstrate mostly the lower sets.

The 18 hands form is a set that is usually taught after the ten NSL sets are taught. Most NSL students were glad that they finished the 10 sets and felt no need to learn the 18 hands set since it was just a repeat of techniques from the 10 NSL sets. Most of YSW students regarded the 18 hand set as KYC’s favorite techniques and that he composed it to capture the essence of NSL. Many disciples believe this because there are no records or documentation on this set before KYC ‘s time. Personally, I feel if you are given a chance to learn it, do it because if what they believe is true then we, who are living today, would at least have an insight of what techniques KYC preferred.

Hope this will give everyone some reasonable historical background of why sets are taught in a certain sequence. I believe it all depends on when your sifu learned from who and during what time period. Almost everyone here in the North America can trace their heritage to two sources: Wong Jack (who taught Paul Eng, Kam Yuan, Wing Lam, who later went to YSW in HK to finish, and Peter Ralston) or Ma Ching Fung (whom has since has stopped teaching NSL and Lo Han for a long while). Most of Lung’s disciples are in Hong Kong with a few of them living in the USA.

As for the five northern stem styles, it is believed that they were all taught at the temple at the same time. Remember the 10 sets of NSL are composed of what are regarded as the best techniques from these five styles.

Hung style originally had six sets that were based on Tsung Tai Jo style. It was regarded as a fierce style that appeared hard and explosive in power in comparison to the other four styles.

Pao style originated in the yellow river valley and was very similar to Hung style. This style had 10 sets and only five sets were fully documented in manuals. And uses suppleness as its core and hardness as its application

Wah style originated in the Yellow River Valley in Hopei and Shantung provinces. It is characterized by its long strides, low stances, high kicks with well connected movements. The style had 12 hand sets which only 4 sets are documented and possibly only six hand sets exist today.

Hua style or Flower style consist of rapid altercations. The stances and strides are shorter than Wah and Ch’a but like Ch’a and Wah, it requires flexibility, agile and suppleness. The style was known to be close fighting techniques and originated in the Yellow River Valley. It also had 10 hand sets but only four survived because they are documented.

Ch’a style is the most popular in China today and is the most complete within China. The stances are not as low as Wah but are lower than Hung, Pao and Hua. Techniques are graceful, continuous and generates its power on the same principles as Wah style.

Since the 1700’s Ch’a Style has divided into three branches with each having 10 sets:
Chang Branch : Chang Shi is the founder of this branch and is known for being quick, fast, compact, agile and has a reputation as being good for defense after the Ching Dynasty, Chang Hsi Yen and Chang Chen Fang taught this branch in Honan Province.

Yang Branch: This branch is known for it’s upright stances, and graceful moves. For many years the branch was represented by Yang Hong Xiu who was born in 1864. Later he taught Wang Tzu Ping and Chen Chan Sheng who shared the style with Kuo Yu Chang. Yim Shan Wu taught the Ch’a style but in his later years stopped teaching the style save one set, number four. Sets number four and number six are the most popular because it is thought that these two sets contained the best fighting techniques.

Li Branch: This branch is known to be more powerful than the other two. It is known for its continuous and masculine techniques and is represented by Li Szu Chu who taught at the Ching Wu Associations in Shanghai and Kwangchow.


Hope this helps,

:cool: :) :)

[reemul]

Ling Mo Fa QI has survived entirely intact. It is however slowly rising from obscurity. It takes a bit longer to achieve mastery then the previously mentioned system.

This system is Northern Shaolin Tiger system of the Ling family. The "Mo" in the name is representative of the Mohist (a retired military class) of which resided in the Honan provice since
before bodhi dharma showed up. This system predates the Black tiger system, and the two are not the same. Ling Mo Fa Qi encompasses external, internal and weapons and consists of form sets of shaolin chuan, chang chuan, and tai chi chuan exclussive to this particular system.

[Kung Lek]

Hi-
as I stated, having only 6 years of experience with North Shaolin, my knowledge is not so robust.
I make no claims to knowledge of northern Shaolin in a full way at all.
However, this is a really great thread with a lot of really good information. Wow! I'm eatin' this stuff up! ha ha.

Reemul- Are you a practitioner of Shantung Black Tiger? I am curious about this system in a superficial way in that I have only ever seen a single book on the system.

NorthernShaolin- That is some comprehensive information you have given, thanks! I always enjoy a read on Master Kuo Yuo Cheong, truly a great Practitioner in the timeline!

peace

Kung Lek

[NorthernShaolin]

Beiguan: I once asked my sifu why our sets do not contain round house kicks, especially in number one. He stated that it was determined in the distance past history, this particular kick was not effective as compared to the other various kicks in CMA and was thus not incorperated into our sets. Today we see this kick in other martial arts such as karate and TKD but not really in CMA.

I remember one of my students telling me in the mid 1970’s that he had visited Johnny Sole, who was one of Yim Shan Wu last students, and he witness these kicks in number 5. When he asks why the change, the answer he was given at that time was that TKD kicks were added to some sets to appeal to tournment competition in the L.A. area.

In response to this, it has always been an acceptable tradition that any qualified master of the NSL style can add but never eliminate moves from a NSL set. Usually a master would add one or two moves to his favorite set. Orininally all 10 sets were of the same length but as you can see many past masters favored numbers 3, 2, and 10.

Names of the moves were originally taught as one learns the set, just like Iron Pig is learning it. And he is right, many students get confused and really do not learn the moves correctly because they concentrate on the names. Today many sifus just want to make sure our sets are passed to the next generation and tend to forget about teaching the names of the moves.

Another reason the names are not transmitted is because many of the traditional names are lost and insteat very descriptive names are used such as Raise left arm, strike with right punch in a right bow stance. However, some fancy names did survive and were handed down. What I found is that techniques with the fancy names usually were the very simple or plain techniques.

Listed below is the names for number 5 as document from Lung Tzu Hsing manual, HK, (late1940?).

Shaolin Number Five - Military Move

Name of Technique
1. Ravens Spreads Its Wings
2. Seven Star Fist
3. Second Brother Carries up the Hill
4. Pair Fist, Form a Flower, Single Hook Hand (Right Palm)
5. Cross Kick (Right Hand Slaps Left Foot)
6. Vicious Tiger Comes Out of Mountain Crouches and Grabs Leg (Single Hook Hand)
7. Grab Hand, Attack level Fist (Left Bow)
8. Spike the Ground, Pick an Onion
9. Turn the Body Left, Left Stomp Kick (Green Dragon Whips Its Tail), Right Kick(Toe), Sit on Horse & Strike Tiger
10. Step Up, March Fist, Hook Step, Three Consective Steps
11. Turn the Body, Spike the Ground, Pick the Onion
12. Left and Right Back Step, Attack Fist (Three Consective Steps)
13. Loosen Hand, Grab Leg with Fish Hook
14. Turn the Body Quickly Around, Hook Hand, Greet the Face Palm (Left Bow Step)
Also Called Phoenix Turns Around Quickly like a Tornado
15. Turn Back the Body, Hands Out with Left Stomp Foot
16. Grab Hand, Attack Level Fist (Left Hand P'ao Fist, Left Bow Step)
17. Right Single Circle Kick
18. Left Single Circle Kick
19. Double Raise Kick
19a Rear Basin Kick
20. Tornado Kick
21. Spike the Ground, Pick Onion
22. Green Dragon Whips Its Tail (Heel)
22b.Turn Back, Grab Hand Attack Level Fist.
23. Spike Ground, Pick Onion
24. Take Body, Jump & Grab Leg, Block & Hit
25. Steal a Step, Grab Hand, Right Stomp Kick
26. Pull Hand, Break Leg (Hook Shave Kick)
27. Shake Leg, Hands Grab Papa (Close Little Door)
28. Right Slaps, Left Wipes, Fall to the Ground, Double Push Palms(Right Bow)
29. Left Foot Back Sweep
30. Grab Hand, Attack Level Fist (Left Bow)
31. Right Cross Kick (Raise Right Foot)
32. Shake Foot, Ready for Stomp Kick (Raise Left Foot) Also Called White Horse Offers Its Hoof
33. Grab Hand, Attack Level Fist
34. Right Cross Kick
35. Turn Back the Body, Hook Step, Block & Hit (Left Bow) (Yim’s disciples do this)
35a Turn Back the Body, Lion Opens Its Big Mouth (Ling’s disciples do this instead of #35)
36. Double Lift Clock, Block Kick
37. Left Hook Strike Shape (Yim’s disciples do this)
37a Lion Opens Its Big Mouth (Lung’s disciples do this instead of #37)
38. Lift Fist Empty Kick, Suddenly Kick Forward, Strike Fist, Right HookStep
39. Turn Back the Body, Chop Fist, Left Sustain Step
40. Turn Back the Body, Left Stomp Kick, Also called Green Dragon Whips ItsTail
41. Right Step Up,Sit on Horse & Strike
42. Left Step Up, Sit on Horse & Strike
43. Turn Body, Form a Flower & Sit in Bowl (Front Palms Hook)
44. Grab Body, Fall to Ground, Double Fists Seven Star
45. Back Step, Through the Palm, Close Form

Jaguar Wong: When you state that you do a heavy staff set, I assuming that it is a very long set. It is not the usual NSL staff set, nine island, but the set’s name is called Gound Demon Staff set which is usually taught after Fire and Water Staff sparring set. These two sets came from Sun Yu Fung via Ma Ching Fung, via Wong Jack Man.


:) :) :cool:

[beiquan]

wow, another great post. that's very interesting about the 18 hands, i had not heard that before. it seems like the wong jack man lineage has a great deal of information about the history of this style, hopefully someday they will choose to make it public for the rest of us :)

i was not aware that wing lam was a student of his, i had always heard that he claimed to be a student of yim shang mo?!

our school's lineage is actually from johnny so, the gentleman which your classmante described visiting, so no wonder we do the roundhouse kicks :)

once again, thanks for sharing this information!

peace
beiquan

[This message was edited by beiquan on 12-11-00 at 02:49 PM.]

[Ironpig]

Hmmmm

I noticed that none of the sets I know have a round house kick in them. I was told a similiar thing about them not being included in the sets, there is a side rising heel kick which is similiar to a roundhouse in the kick of nine provinces staff set..but it still is a heel kick

just a few more pennies from a pig

IronPig

[Jaguar Wong]

Yes it is a very long set, and yes, I did learn it after the Fire/Water two man set :) I also learned the Northern Long staff (the staff is the normal size, but the set is long :)) around that time as well. I'm not sure which would be considered the Ground Demon set, cause I'm not all that knowledgable of the real names. The long staff set has some ground rolling in it, but the heavy staff has some moves where you plant one end of the staff into the ground. So which one is the Ground Demon set?

Jaguar Wong
www.superaction.com

[mantis108]

NorternShaolin,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. If I may post a question. Where would Gung Lik Kune and Jeet Kune fit in the NSL system. These sets are said to be taught in the Ching Wu Schools among other forms. Many Mantis practitioner who took Mantis had to take these prior to the Mantis forms. What is your view on taking these first? If you don't mind also sharing your view on the concepts and techniques that formulate these 2 forms.

I have learned both sets. The applications that I have learned are some what different from Dr Yang's. Anyway just like to get your opinions on them. Appreciate your comments and enjoy your posts.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[reemul]

I think you misread my post, but to answer your
question, No I don't study Black Tiger, here is what I wrote:

>Ling Mo Fa QI has survived entirely intact. It is however slowly rising from obscurity.It takes a bit longer to achieve mastery then the previously mentioned system.This system is Northern Shaolin Tiger system of the Ling family. The "Mo" in the
name is representative of the Mohist (a retired military class) of which resided in the Honan provice since before bodhi dharma showed up. This system predates the Black tiger system, and
the two are not the same. Ling Mo Fa Qi encompasses external, internal and weapons and consists of form sets of shaolin chuan, chang chuan, and tai chi chuan exclussive to this particular system.

As the passage says our system predates Shang tung
Black Tiger and they are not the same. There are no books on our system either(sorry) Wu fut Ling was head of the Fukien monastary before leaving China, however, as stated this is a northern system. The Lings left the Shaolin Temple at Honan during the cultural revolution and took residence at Fukien. They subsiqently left the country haveing been targeting for assination by the government

[Shaolin Master]

-Songshan Shaolin did not practice the so called 'Northern Shaolin' System.
-18 Hands contain a single routine (2 lines only to the left then back again) and a Dui Lien, 2-man dual practice set [Thus practicing single techniques maybe from here].
-Of the 5, Pao Quan & Hong Quan are Shaolin Temple originated/Descended arts. The others are not so related (may have been influenced through time but what hasn't but not a direct consequence of shaolin).
-The Bei Shaolin System that all are practicing is a culmination of those 5 arts but not necessarily a temple development. In Olden times many arts were developed by gathering masters of differing styles and composing the essence of them into a system.
-Other Northern Arts include
Chuo Jiao
Fan Zi Men
Duan Quan
PikuaZhang
TongbeiQuan
Shaolin Specific
Da Jing Gang Quan
Wu Zi Quan
Lohan Quan
TanglangQuan
etc...........

- Hua Quan has 12 Routines 4 documented by GrandMaster Cai Long Yun, which many proclaim only that many remain...however this is not so.
- Zha Quan has 10 Routines and most popular.
- Hong Quan exists in its entirety. The Songshan SHaolin Hong Quan is significantly different!!!
- Hua (Flower) only has 4 Sets but are very long and contain northern and southern flavoured techniques.As mentioned originated in HuangHe valley regions.
- Pou Quan 10 Sets in Tact. More Similar to Songshan Shaolin than the other 3 (ie. Other than Hong Quan).

NSL Staff Set 9 Islands...hehe I think it is best known as 9 Provinces Staff..

Reemul,
Could you put 'Ling Mo Fa Qi' into mandarin or translate it sounds peculiar as a martial name....Fujian Shaolin Temple???!What? if any even in passing it would be in the Fujian Historical Records.


Respects
Shi Chan Long

[Brad]

Is Fukien Temple the Southern Shaolin Temple? My geography isn't all that great.

[reemul]

In reference to "Ling Mo Fa QI" loosley traslated
(my understanding which is susceptible to error)it is "Ling Mo organization". That is what it is called today. Ling being the family name, Mo haveing ties to Mohinst philosophy, which by the way, some of its philosophy was adopted by Toaist and Confucius schools and. To be honest I forgot what the Fa Qi traslation is, but we get organization from tong, which is generally left off.