Training one side or the other

[MightyB]

Weak side lead is more offensive,

Strong side lead is more defensive.

It depends on how you feel and who you're fighting. If the guy is an offensive maniac who leads with strong kicks, it's probably better to lead with the strong hand and wait for him to make a mistake and open himself to a counter puch or throw. If he's more of a counter puncher and defensive, go with the jab hand/weakside lead and pick him apart.

[ShaolinTiger00]

opponents keep moving away - cut them off with footwork.

why more square on the attack on the ropes? - bringing up the back leg gives the uppercut more power. ropes= lots of infighting and digging.

[red5angel]

interesting replies. I think for now I am going to have to stay orthodox. My strong side, right side, isn't any faster or slower then my left side and I feel more comfortable with a left lead.

[ShaolinTiger00]

What are the benefits of a weak side lead?

Because although it be be weaker, it can provide you with the quickest punch (the jab) - It sets up more powerful shots, keeps your opponent off balance, can be used to dictate the pace of the fight, and buys time for you.

And you still have your stronger punch behind that. jab /power. jab /power. jab /power /hook /power. jab /power.

[red5angel]

"And you still have your stronger punch behind that. jab /power. jab /power. jab /power /hook /power. jab /power."

I think this is intuitively why I like the weak side lead. So far anyway.

[Kaitain(UK)]

I think it depends on what punches you feel strongest at and use a lot

the jab is an entry (attacking) or stopping (defensive) technique - if on entry I want to hit hard enough with it and then close quickly. If it's stopping I want it to have enough to do the job.

I also throw most punches in three's before getting out again (or closing to clinch). So to me power lead, strong left cross/hook, power hook works better than ok-ish lead, power cross, ok-ish lead hook

Obviously I've trained combinations that suit though - and my left is a lot weaker than my right (missing my pinkie on that hand which has taken a lot of the 'oomph' out of it). Hey - I should get a disability parking permit...

It's interesting that some of you advocate putting your strong leg forwards - I guess if it's same side as stronger hand it makes sense. I have opposites so I choose between strong lead leg and rear arm or weak lead arm and rear leg. I only use my lead leg for stop kicks, knees or stamp entries to clinch - anything offensive comes from the rear leg (there are rare exceptions if i think the inside leg of my opponent is available to kick). The taiji I train enourages this - the form trains the right leg a lot more in stop kicks to the shin (off of every Brush Knee sequence) - the left is all about heel kicks and so on. I know there's probably eighty hidden left stop kicks - please dont tell me; where I am at the moment there's none

I was going to say you can't really choose what limb you're going to have to use, but obviously you can and do. If someone comes to my left I'm more likely to try and block and wrap with my left arm and use my right for strikes and I'll usually go for the inside. If it's to my right then I will try to get outside and use my left to stick and my right to deliver - or I'll go inside but slip and strike with the right. I'm less confident on the inside if my left is going to be doing the majority of the work. When in doubt, elbow - it's always hard enough I'm much happier at grappling range, it's easier to feel what's going on and launch some serious damage.

[Braden]

Bagua tends to change "leads" so often, it's almost meaningless... so I guess both.

[myosimka]

One of the Inosanto lineage wrote an interesting piece on this a while back.(Cass Magda I think) If you wanted to do a google search.

One way you put your power side back and use the jab as a set-up weapon for the crushing strong side cross. The other is that you get your stronger side in between you and your opponent and also the faster side closer to the target. Makes for quicker lead side hits. Plus you still end up with a strong reverse attack because the hip movememnt compensates for the weaker side. So you have 2 strong weapons instead of one weak one and one superstrong one. Both ideas seem pretty valid to me, just different choices.

I tend to favor orthodox after MT and karate but as I am moving to kali, I am trying to switch. Seems simpler to practice one side dominantly rather than switching based on whether I have a weapon or not. Plus southpaw is seen rarely enough that it makes life tougher for other people if I use it. And that means one more thing in my favor.

[red5angel]

Myosimka, why is it you are switching leads now that you are getting into Kali?
Currently I am training in Kali and MT, and haven't had a chance to address this same question yet in class.

[yenhoi]

In some FMA, red5, you train weapons with power side forward, and empty hand weak side forward. Some dont care either way, and train both, some are opposite, etc. Some train one way for awhile, and then train the other for a bit, then .... Eventually in most FMA you would be exposed to both, and forced to experiment with both.

[red5angel]

I noticed Aps comment on switching in Kali as well and I think he even mentioned because of the weapons so he wanted to stay consistant. I haven't done any weapons training yet, just the empty hands stuff so far and so far no one has discouraged me from weak side first.

[apoweyn]

yep. i also did a little fencing in that time, to shed some more light on eskrima (some of which is derived from western fencing). and, of course, fencers lead with their dominant hand as well.

my teachers tried to emphasize that the value of an art that includes weapons isn't just being able to fight in different modes (empty hand, armed with a knife, armed with a stick), but to go from one to the other relatively seamlessly. to my thinking, that was easier if i was structurally consistent from one to another.

of course, there are always exceptions to the rule.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

with fencing it makes more sense to me, or knife work etc.. since you want the poke-type weapon in your strongest hand, to as HOL puts it, "make sharp things go through soft things that scream and bleed."
I think I just feel better about jabbing with my weak hand, since the jab is a "weak" shot anyway and being able to really deliver a decisive blow with my strong hand.

[apoweyn]

well, i'm not trying to convert you, obviously. but my thinking is this:

my left hand is my weaker hand. that doesn't mean that it's just weak. i'm pretty comfortable with the power of that hand now. i'm less comfortable (because of the specific way i've trained) with the accuracy, speed, and versatility of that left hand. and those are all attributes i would want honed in a lead hand. if i'm going to use something like the jab to dictate range and pace, create openings, etc., then that jab better be accurate and versatile.

i guess this is what it comes down to: we've got a dominant hand and a nondominant hand. if the nondominant hand is going to be at all useful, we need to train into it certain attributes. many people opt to train speed, accuracy, etc. into their nondominant hand, leaving their dominant hand to provide power. other people opt to train power generation into that nondominant hand, relying on the dominant one to control the environment enough to get the nondominant one delivered on target.

either way, there's training involved. right? the nondominant hand is generally not particularly coordinated in any sense, so any way you look at it, you're going to have to deliberately work on that hand.


stuart b.

[David Jamieson]

It is a precept of Southern Shaolin CMA to gain balance, strength and equal ability with both sides of the body.

Particularly the Hung styles adhere to this precept.

All the southern Shaolin forms I was taught have both sides worked equally with the same techniques.

The North Shaolin I learned does not strictly adhere to this precept in it's forms. At least not those forms that I have learned, but there are plenty of augmentation exercises that encourage the idea. Plus I didn't learn all the North Shaolin forms yet, so perhaps further into the curriculum this is addressed by the style.

cheers

addendum; the ten road tan tui that i learned before starting into the core forms of North Shaolin works all techniques with both sides evenly.