" Why Kung Fu Won't Work In Combat!! "

[Braden]

We use protective gear.

And I was kidding about calling you a troll; you were better off ignoring me.

[Serpent]

Of course protective gear is used.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
That was not a troll question. It's something I am genuinely curious about.

OK, let's say you take away the "deadly" stuff. How do you spar full contact against resisting opponents even using the "non-deadly" strikes unless you use gloves or other kinds of protective equipment?

As far as the joint breaking question, that is true to a degree. You don't always know whether it will work or not because you are not actually breaking or hyperextending the joint each time. I have seen guys in competitions not tap and end up escaping even when the other person is trying to actaully break the joint. On the other hand, I've accidentally taken joint locks and chokes too far against opponents and have had the same done to me, so I have a pretty good feel for what it takes to snap the joint or choke someone out.

Knifefighter,

We don't use gloves or padding period!

My sifu has caught me a couple of times with good shots to the head.I guess i have a hard head?

How can you use a tiger claw or mantis hand (poke,claw,whip) with a glove on?

You cant!

That's why you have to learn to spar without gloves.Also you need to condition your hands to do any of this.A tiger claw is not going to work if it has no power.You have to develope the power and strength in the fingers,wrist,and forearm to be able to use a tiger claw.So many ppl are learning kung fu half a$$ it's a shame.You can go full power with gloves,head gear, and pads ,but when you do that you're basicly kickboxing and that's all i was pointing out.There's nothing wrong with kickboxing you're just wasting 80% of your kung fu if that's all you do.

jeff

[Braden]

There's plenty of protective gear other than boxing gloves. How would such things interfere with kungfu?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by jmd161


Knifefighter,

We don't use gloves or padding period!

My sifu has caught me a couple of times with good shots to the head.I guess i have a hard head?

How can you use a tiger claw or mantis hand (poke,claw,whip) with a glove on?

You cant!

That's why you have to learn to spar without gloves.Also you need to condition your hands to do any of this.A tiger claw is not going to work if it has no power.You have to develope the power and strength in the fingers,wrist,and forearm to be able to use a tiger claw.So many ppl are learning kung fu half a$$ it's a shame.You can go full power with gloves,head gear, and pads ,but when you do that you're basicly kickboxing and that's all i was pointing out.There's nothing wrong with kickboxing you're just wasting 80% of your kung fu if that's all you do.

jeff

THere are all sorts of levels of sparring and all sorts of protective gear, depending on what you're doing.

And yes, sometimes spar without any protection at all.

[jmd161]

Because i was'nt even thinking boxing gloves.

I was talking like the gloves they use in tournaments or even UFC type gloves.Where the palm is open ,but fingers are covered.

As far as padding we train to hurt or even break your arm or leg with a block.Our forearms and shins are pounded against the Black Tiger Grinder Dummy.So sifu does'nt let us use forearm pads so to help develope our arms more.Or Shin pads for that matter.Chest protection stops a claw from really taking effect or at least makes it alot harder to use.

plus sifu wants us to get hit!

That's another reason people can't fight they've never really been hit.Padding gives you a false sense of protection.That you don't notice until you get into a fight without it.

Did i answer your Questions?

jeff

[Braden]

You can't do a tiger palm in grappling gloves?

You train to break peoples arms with your blocks, but you spar full without arm protection... am I missing something here, or do you guys break each others arms regularly?

Yes, chest pads stop a claw from taking effect. That's exactly their point. How does this stop you from training?

"Padding gives you a false sense of protection"

The padding isn't for the people wearing it, it's for the people striking, so they can do so without worrying about hurting the person.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Serpent


THere are all sorts of levels of sparring and all sorts of protective gear, depending on what you're doing.

And yes, sometimes spar without any protection at all.

Serpent,

You lost me with this one?

What are you saying to me?

I'm not trying to be funny i just do see the point you're making.

jeff

[Braden]

His point is that you can train in all sorts of different ways, so long as you understand what the goal of the training is. Using pads isn't an all or nothing thing. You use whatever tools you have to make your training better. Pads are one of these tools, and they're valuable in a variety of situations. Other training methods cause for no pads. This way you get complete training, rather than half-assed training.

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Braden
You can't do a tiger palm in grappling gloves?

You train to break peoples arms with your blocks, but you spar full without arm protection... am I missing something here, or do you guys break each others arms regularly?

Yes, chest pads stop a claw from taking effect. That's exactly their point. How does this stop you from training?

"Padding gives you a false sense of protection"

The padding isn't for the people wearing it, it's for the people striking, so they can do so without worrying about hurting the person.

Braden,

If you are asking serious questions i'll answer them ,but don't keep me here explaining this just for a trolling game i don't have time for kids playing games.

I'm not being funny i'm being real bro!

I don't have time for games.I'm trying to help people see what my sifu helped me see through hard work and serious training.

Jeff

[Braden]

If I didn't want you to answer the questions, I wouldn't have asked them.

[jmd161]

If I didn't want you to answer the questions, I wouldn't have asked them.

Braden ,

Trolls ask questions also.

KFO is famous for trolling and flame wars.I came here because i heard of it from other forums of how bad it was.I could'nt believe it was that bad so i checked it out and i don't feel it is.I have had a prior problem with Fu Jow Pai ppl ,but that has all passed.

Anyway if you check my thread you will see i said semi-full contact.You don't wanna kill each other ,but you want it real as possiable.Yes we do hurt each other sometime.I've spear handed my sihing in the groin before by mistake.He nor i was wearing a cup or padding.His arms are more developed than mine so my arms take a very hard beating all the time.Sifu beats both of are arms up badly.I've been kicked on the kneecap by my sifu where i thought he did break my leg.So to say we don't hurt each other is a lie.We do but i and my sihing feel it's made us better fighters.Plus our pain threshold is much higher from doing this type of training.

SifuAbel almost broke my arms yrs ago.He used to practice bangaing his arms against a solid iron pipe we had in the school.SifuGus told me not to bang arms with SifuAbel but i thought i could hang with him.I was out of training for two weeks after ,but i did'nt give up either.

jeff

[jmd161]

I was out of training for two weeks after ,but i did'nt give up either.

That's not something i should be proud of stupidty is not a flattering thing.

I was'nt able to attend work for two week either plus it set my training back.

Sifu you never knew about it because i never showed it on my face,but i was in great pain.I really should have listened to Sifu Gus.

I don't know if he ever told you?

He got on me good about that one.You know how much of a temper our sifu could have SifuAbel.His blood really got boiling over that one.

jeff

[Braden]

You say now you hold back when you train.

Previously you said: "That's another reason people can't fight they've never really been hit.Padding gives you a false sense of protection.That you don't notice until you get into a fight without it."

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

...and you ignored all my questions.

[Golden Arms]

Ok, I will clarify a bit. We fight with no protection, this is mainly because that is likely how a real situation could go down. For this same reason we also wear whatever shoes you want to wear, etc, although a general pants and tshirt uniform is worn by most, its not mandatory by any means. The way you spar to hit full contact is to work up to it. You basically go up to the level of the less skilled person...you are not trying to win, you are trying to both LEARN instead. So if you are the senior student skill wise on someone, and you are way faster, you slow down, or decrease the power so that they have a chance to try and make things work, but you still resist them..as they get better you step itup. Then, some other time you can spar with a person where you are the junior, then they do you the same favor, so you can go all out or close to all out..the guy gets to work on defense and counters and you get to try and make things work. Then you can fight someone close to your own skill level and you both can go pretty d@mn hard until one of you taps out, backs off, or goes down. Between these ways you get a good workout, get to try things out for real, and still get to see what its like to fight someone without pads. To find out what other styles are like, ask around, or fight in tournemants in different formats...Enough years of this stuff and you will have a pretty good Idea of what you can and cannot do realistically, and you tailor your training around that.