cross training and forms collecting

[SevenStar]

From various threads on various forums, I've realized that not everbody makes a distinction between these two. People think that merely speding a year or less in one style and then going to another, not having a solid foundation in any of them, etc. is cross training. In my eyes, that is forms collecting, not cross training. What are your thoughts?

[Royal Dragon]

Yup, that's why I only work about 3 sets, mostly one is a holding posture set for the conditionig, and the other two are pretty short fundemental sets.

If I have a partner, I don't even do any more than warm up with it, I prefer all two man work of the sets techniques.

[apoweyn]

Right there with you Sevenstar. The crux of crosstraining is that you have a coherent framework to filter new ideas through. Can't develop that without putting some serious time in. Style hopping is a world apart.

[scotty1]

I don't think anyones going to disagree with you on here.

Apart from the fact that you're right, I don't think they'd admit it.

[MasterKiller]

People think that merely speding a year or less in one style and then going to another, not having a solid foundation in any of them, etc. is cross training. In my eyes, that is forms collecting, not cross training. What are your thoughts?

Not all styles do forms, right? If you spend 1 year in BJJ, and 1 year in MT, not really getting a solid foundation in either, is that technique collecting or cross-training?

waiting for the ubiquitous "1 year in MT is better than 5 years in CMA...."

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Not all styles do forms, right? If you spend 1 year in BJJ, and 1 year in MT, not really getting a solid foundation in either, is that technique collecting or cross-training?

Good point. Forms collecting = style hopping.

[David Jamieson]

I don't know if you would be able to collect to many forms as a beginner in each style.

most kungfu teachers won't teach the forms of their style until a foundation is set.

if you have a foundation and go looking for new forms, what harm is there in that?

if you train consistently with resisting opponents, your style will reveal itself over time anyway regardless of all the forms you have.

having said that, i enjoy learning one or two new forms a year from a different style. this year it's wing chun for me so far so good.

cheers

[rogue]

Agree 7*. Goes hand in hand with JKD guys discarding what is useless and not knowing how a technique should be used. I think we have a horn of plenty on the table when it comes to exposure to other martial arts but many don't have the disclpline not to gorge themselves.

[scotty1]

"most kungfu teachers won't teach the forms of their style until a foundation is set."

That may not be the case in a lot of schools.

[MasterKiller]

That may not be the case in a lot of schools.

There are foundation-building forms (which most people start with) and then there are application-building forms. I think a lot teachers fail to make this distinction to their students.

[Mika]

I agree.

To avoid any terminology crises, I would say 'forms' could mean a collection of techniques, as well, and not only Kuens.

This matter has long puzzled me. Hailing from somewhere else, I found the American acceptance of this type of approach to martial arts a little peculiar. It is OK to have trained several arts in a relatively short period of time (say, 5 arts in 5 years).
I am NOT saying this doesn't happen anywhere else - it does - but it seems to me that in the States it is fairly well accepted outside the actual MA circles. We could easily enter a philosophical discussion on modern cultures and so on, but...

Style hopping, however, would be the same as majoring in business for a year, then in geology for 6 months, then in chemistry for one semester, etc.
End result: not much

As we all know, the real aspects of any style are revealed AND understood only after several years of hard training, and in many cases only when the student has proven himself or herself to the Sifu. Of course, what I mean by 'real aspects' is open to speculation, but y'all know what I mean..

If more people would realize that really learning a martial art takes time, it would be much easier for many of us (the fact* is that most martial art students have tried several arts, and relatedly, many teachers spend a lot of time teaching students who soon disappear).
Devoted students make devoted Sifus make devoted schools => everyone wins, especially the art in question. But naturally, there is room all kinds of people and mindsets. Live and let live

Mika

*Not really a fact as much as it is an educated guess.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mika
... As we all know, the real aspects of any style are revealed AND understood only after several years of hard training, and in many cases only when the student has proven himself or herself to the Sifu. Of course, what I mean by 'real aspects' is open to speculation, but y'all know what I mean..

If more people would realize that really learning a martial art takes time, it would be much easier for many of us...

Nicely put! Kind'a like going back to the basics and finding more layers to the technique, that takes time and practice, as well as guidence from your Sifu.

[SifuAbel]

If they spend a only a little time in each school then they are only "collecting" beginner forms.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Not all styles do forms, right? If you spend 1 year in BJJ, and 1 year in MT, not really getting a solid foundation in either, is that technique collecting or cross-training?

waiting for the ubiquitous "1 year in MT is better than 5 years in CMA...."

I would consider it style hopping, but of course, 1 year in MT is better than 5 years in CMA.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
If they spend a only a little time in each school then they are only "collecting" beginner forms.

but would you consider that colecting or cross training?