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Thread: Strength Training Links

  1. #1
    Destrous9 Guest

    My strength advice (from an ex-powerlifter)

    The following are some suggestions and thoughts on an a strength building routine.
    It may be a little wordy, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.
    I practiced and studied bodybuilding and powerlifting for about 10 years,
    and most of this information is real world stuff, or the methods that work
    for non drug-using lifters. I hope it helps.

    1) Nutrition
    Nutrition is just as important as a proper strength training plan. Without
    the proper amount of complex carb and protein intake, your efforts will
    often plateau, or creep slowly forward. It is best to get about 3 quality
    servings of complex carbs during each day (rice and pasta are my favorites).
    Complex carb intake should be spaced out evenly during the day. One serving
    early in the day, one serving midday, and one around dinner time. The next
    most important issue is protein intake. Your body needs protein to rebuild the
    torn muscle tissue from a hard workout. Generally, a body can only assimilate
    28-35 grams of protein every 2.5 to 3 hours, so it is best to spread out your
    protein 'meals'. I recommend a minimum of 120 grams of protein a day, up to
    200 grams if you really want to pack on extra muscle tissue as well. Eat
    protein 4-6 times a day, spread apart by 2.5 to 3 hour intervals. The rest
    of your caloric intake should depend on your physique and your nutritional needs.
    Don't cut your fat intake to 0 grams, as your body needs a marginal amount of
    fat to function. Also, drink plenty of water. Water helps the body recover
    faster between workouts.

    The following are some protein foods I used during my 10 years of training:

    Eggs: 7 grams of protein ea. 75 calories ea.
    Protein powder in powdered milk, w/20 ounces of water: Mix to 30 grams protein, 200 calories
    Can of tuna packed in water: 28 grams of protein, 180-ish calories, no fat
    Met-Rx bars: 28-ish grams of protein, 200-ish calories. Good nutritionally.
    Chicken breast: 30 grams of ptotein, low calories.
    ...and when I didn't have access to these foods, I would grab a huge stick of
    beef jerky from a quick-mart...alot of them have 25+ grams of protein and are
    low calorie.

    2) Sleep
    Try to get 7-8 hours a night, or an amount that keeps you feeling good when you
    wake up. Nuff said.

    3) Training frequency.
    Do not train each bodypart 2-3 times a week. This seems like the macho approach,
    but it does not works for a non drug-using lifter. Look at all the guys in your
    gym that have trained with this program for 5-10 years...they make little or
    no progress.

    Train each bodypart once every 5, 6 or 7 days. Each muscle needs at least 72
    hours of proper recuperation to grow stronger, and the most growth in strength
    will occur at 72-100 hours after training. For the five years before my
    daughter was born, I trained each bodypart once a week. Which is best? Once every
    5-6-7 days? Play around and see which pattern yields you with the biggest improvement
    in strength from the last workout. Each body is different.

    4) Training Intensity
    Fewer sets, and far greater intensity.
    Push each set to failure. Use strict technique and heavy weight. Nuke your
    body. Life heavy and use heavy compound movements. Do not do more than 10 sets
    for any bodypart. More than this is a waste, and actually breaks down tissue
    negatively, as well as over-taxes joints.

    5) My recommended workout: (Go heavy, and keep trying to go heavier each workout)

    Monday: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

    Bench Press 4 sets to failure. 10-12 reps, 7-9 reps, 7-9 reps, 4-6 reps
    Dumbbell bench press 4 sets to failure. Same rep pattern as above
    Overhead dumbbell press or overhead barbell press (alternate each workout) 6 sets. 10-12, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 4-6
    Closegrip Bench press (hands together or close together) 4 sets. 10-12, 7-9, 7-9, 4-6

    This workout when used with maximum weight and intensity will nuke your shoulders, chest
    and triceps. It includes basic compound movements which are the key to strength training.
    Pec decs, flyes, and other movements are not needed. To Get strong you must life big,
    no exceptions.

    Wednesday: Back/Biceps/Calves

    Dumbell Rows, or Low pulley rows (alternate each workout) 4 sets, same rep pattern
    Half deadlifts, (or complete deadlifts if no access to a squat rack) Bar should
    rest about 4 inches below your knees at the bottom of the movement. 4 sets, same rep pattern.
    Dumbell or barbell curls (alternate each woorkout) 4 sets, same rep pattern
    Favorite calve movement 4 sets, same rep pattern

    This workout pre-exhausts the back muscle with the rows, and frys the back with the deadlifts.
    Again, basic compound movements which will work all back muscles, traps, biceps, obliques, and lower back.

    Friday: Legs

    Squats 6 sets, 10-12, 10-12, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 4-6, maximum weight. Use strict form and no bouncing!
    Favorite hamstring movement, 4 sets. I like alternating machine hamstring work with good mornings,
    (or straight leg deadlifts).

    6) Notes
    -Heavy compound movements are the best natural anabolic, as they force the body to release
    massive amounts of testosterone. Max weight to failure always. Squatting, deadlifting,
    and the other heavy weight movements make your entire body stronger, as they put you in an anabolic state.
    -never do more sets. If you have the extra energy, use it elsewhere in life. Strength
    training is not endurance training. Lift big and get out of the gym.
    -once every month and a half to 2 months, shock a bodypart, or do something different.
    For example, instead of your normal chest workout, do pushups until your arms fall off, or do
    no resting between sets, with a partner peeling weight off of the barbell, etc. Get creative,
    but nuke and shock your body every couple of months. This helps break strength plateaus. ANother
    good plateau breaker is super slow motion sets. 5 seconds lifting up, 5 seconds coming down for each movement.
    -Lifting without proper nutrition and protein intake is useless. They must go hand in hand.
    -Once every 6-7 days is plenty. Rest.
    -The monsters in the bodybuilding/strength magazines feature insane routines, which can only be
    beneficial under the influence of roids, hormones, and more.

    At the end of 1999, (my last training log) my lifts were:

    Bench Press, 440 by 5 reps
    Deep squat, 600 by 6 reps
    Dumbell rows, 190 lb DB's by 6 reps
    Overhead DB press, 160's by 5 reps.

    My upper body was always naturally weaker than my legs.


    I hope this helps some. You may know alot of this, so I hope nothing is redundant.
    This program is effective and simple, and has pushed my body to life weights I never thought
    possible. My body was not genetically built for power. At the age of 18 (when I first started
    lifting), I couldn't bench press 100 pounds for 4 reps. Using this program exclusively
    from 1997-1999 (I stopped lifting when my daughter was born :( ), I could lift more than anyone in the gym.
    Most guys thought I was on steroids. The same guys overworked and underfed their bodies.
    Please try it, it really works well...and give it a year. My numbers were after many years of intense training.
    But with this simple program, my strength never stopped increasing.

    Good luck!

    Destrous9

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  2. #2
    Insynergy Guest
    Wow someone posting info instead of questions for a change?? :) Very commendable destrous. I may not try it exactly but more notes are good notes :)
    One question though - ever have any problems these days with joints?? esp knees??

  3. #3
    Destrous9 Guest
    No, not really. My body seems built for deep squats, and I've always done them slow, with tight form and knee wraps.

    My joints are at their worst when I don't train. It seems (appears) that the muscle strength remains, while the tendons become soft, or weaker at a much faster rate. I think this can cause problems.

    When the muscle is far stronger then the tendons, and the muscle is used, I can notice it.

    I do have horrible tendonitis in my elbows, but only on pulling motions. For the first five years of my training, I used to train pushing motions much harder than pulling. So the tendonitis is my fault, not the lifting.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

    [This message was edited by Destrous9 on 04-20-01 at 02:38 AM.]

  4. #4
    Destrous9 Guest
    ...and thanks for the 'pat on the back'. While I do know alot about weightlifting and nutrition, the martial arts are still relatively new to me.

    I am constantly skimming the boards absorbing all I can, and rarely posting anything of value to the CMA student.

    I thought I might be able to help a few people with my experience.

    Thanks again, and good training, whatever your training might be.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  5. #5
    IronFist Guest

    Good, good

    Good nutrition advice, Destrous9 :)

    "-Heavy compound movements are the best natural anabolic, as they force the body to release
    massive amounts of testosterone."

    Yes! To anyone reading this, don't be afraid of squatting, like most people are. And when you do decide to be a man and squat, make sure you go until your thighs parallel to the floor. Don't do wussy frat boy squats (the kind where you load way more weight than you can handle and go down 2 or 3 inches)

    "Max weight to failure always."

    I think this is good advice, but someone who ALWAYS did it this way would eventually make slow gains. Every 2 months or so change your workout up. Go less weight more reps for a while to keep your body guessing.

    "Squatting, deadlifting, and the other heavy weight movements make your entire body stronger, as they put you in an anabolic state."

    Again, yup :)

    "-never do more sets. If you have the extra energy, use it elsewhere in life. Strength
    training is not endurance training. Lift big and get out of the gym."

    Powerlifters do fewer sets with more rest inbetween and heavier weights for less reps. Bodybuilders on the other hand will do more sets to use as much muscle fiber as possible. After all, to the bodybuilder, more muscle fiber recruitment = more growth.

    "-once every month and a half to 2 months, shock a bodypart, or do something different.
    For example, instead of your normal chest workout, do pushups until your arms fall off, or do
    no resting between sets, with a partner peeling weight off of the barbell, etc. Get creative,
    but nuke and shock your body every couple of months. "

    Oops, I guess you did say this, which pertains to my above comment about changing things up.

    "This helps break strength plateaus."

    But if someone doesn't always do max weight to failure, plateaus will be less common ;)

    "-Lifting without proper nutrition and protein intake is useless."

    And rest.

    "-Once every 6-7 days is plenty. Rest."

    Again, good advice.

    "-The monsters in the bodybuilding/strength magazines feature insane routines, which can only be beneficial under the influence of roids, hormones, and more."

    Not to mention the fact that pro BB'ers also randomly happen to have the genes to enable them to become that big. Besides, I think a pro BB would be a sucky martial artist :)

    "Bench Press, 440 by 5 reps
    Deep squat, 600 by 6 reps"

    Impressive. Better than me :)

    Finally, eat more tuna! (or Chicken of the Sea pink salmon if the mercury content in tuna scares you)

    ironman

  6. #6
    Ford Prefect Guest

    Might be interesting

    Hey Destrous,

    You might find it interesting in reading about the weight-training plans for Eastern Block Countries who are pretty dominant in powerlifting comps. Lots of national team coaches never have their lifters go to failure and will typically have them practice the same lifts multiple times per week as well as at various intervals during a single day while going as heavy as possible. In other words, they have them go as heavy as possible as often as possible. I just started following a similar approach about 8 months ago and have never seen better gains in my life. It's just some interesting reading.

    "Who's house?"
    "I said RUN's house."

  7. #7
    Ford Prefect Guest
    >>>Powerlifters do fewer sets with more rest inbetween and heavier weights for less reps. Bodybuilders on the other hand will do more sets to use as much muscle fiber as possible. After all, to the bodybuilder, more muscle fiber recruitment = more growth.<<<

    Don't you think that the power lifter who's lifting maximal weights will have far greater neurological muscle fiber recruitment than a bodybuilder who uses less weight? After all, I've seen 185 lbs powerlifters that could out squat many a monster bodybuilder.

    "Who's house?"
    "I said RUN's house."

  8. #8
    IronFist Guest

    Powerlifters vs. Bodybuilders

    "Don't you think that the power lifter who's lifting maximal weights will have far greater neurological muscle fiber recruitment than a bodybuilder who uses less weight? After all, I've seen 185 lbs powerlifters that could out squat many a monster bodybuilder"

    No. Someone who lifts a heavy weight (obviously for fewer reps), ie powerlifters, will NOT recruit as many muscle fibers as someone who lifts for 6-8 reps (moderate range), with more sets and who lifts to failure.

    The purpose of bodybuilding is to get big. On stage, no one cares if you can squat 200lbs or 700lbs. The only thing you're judged on is how you look. Dr. Hatfield, the first man to squat over 1000lbs has skinny legs. Why? Because he doesn't train to failure on multiple sets and therefore doesn't use as much TOTAL muscle fiber.

    A sample bodybuilding chest routine might involve first bench press for 5 or 6 sets, never exceding 10 reps per set. And no more than 1.5 minutes rest inbetween sets. Then he may move on to dumbell flies to further use MORE muscle fibers that haven't already been "damaged" by bench press, altho he will use less total weight because there are less fibers left, and then he might move on to cable flies with a relatively lighter weight to further use up as many remaining muscle fibers as possible. The reason for this? The most muscle fibers he uses, the more will grow back, bigger, which is the ultimate goal of bodybuilding.

    Powerlifters, on the other hand, use far greater weight, but do less reps, fewer sets, and more rest inbetween sets. Why? Because their ultimate goal is to be able to lift as much weight as possible, with no regard to how they look.

    You are right when you say powerlifters can squat more than their much larger bodybuilding counterparts. The reason is because they train differently, because they have different goals. A (typical) bodybuilder would get his arse kicked in a powerlifting comp., as would a powerlifter in a physique contest.

    Make sense?

    And as for the Eastern strength training stuff, have you read any books by Pavel Tsa-something. You can find his stuff at dragondoor.com. He's a russian powerlifter or trainer or something who writes books about their system of training. I haven't read any yet, but I've only heard good stuff about it.

    Ironman

  9. #9
    Ford Prefect Guest
    Ironman,

    Still not getting it. :) I figure if somebody has skinny legs like Dr. Hatfield but can squat 1000 lbs, then wouldn't he be accessing a much greater percentage of muscle fibers than somebody twice his size who can't come close to squatting as much? I'm talking about greater neurological recruitment of muscle fibers, not the number of muscle fibers themselves. Obviously the bigger bodybuilder has more muscle fibers, but I consider it just as obvious that the stronger powerlifter is recruiting a greater percentage of his muscle fibers. If you don't agree with that, could you please xplain why you don't. I'd be sincerely interested in hearing.

    I've actually read Pavel's books which got me interested in investigating eastern training methods. It's hard to find eastern weight training books in english, but I found a few. It was more-so a waste of time because Pavel had gone over a lot of the things presented in the books in a manner that is much easier on the brain. :) I consider myself pretty well-read in terms of exercise, fitness, powerlifting, and bodybuilding, but some of the stuff in those books was just too technical.

    I'd definately recommend Pavel's books if you are looking for fresh approach. I've had nothing but consistent gains since I started following his advice. The books are a good read too because he adds a lot of flavor and humor to the normally boring subject. As he says, "When the space race was on in the beginning of the Cold War, it was discovered that an ordinary pen could not write in space. NASA through millions of dollars into R&D to remedy the problem and voila: the space pen. Russians opted for the pencil. This is the pencil approach to strength training" Like I said. He's a funny guy. ;)

    BTW, like I said I'm pretty well read with this stuff, so you don't have to go into elaborate examples. :)

    "Who's house?"
    "I said RUN's house."

  10. #10
    IronFist Guest

    Hmmm

    "I figure if somebody has skinny legs like Dr. Hatfield but can squat 1000 lbs, then wouldn't he be accessing a much greater percentage of muscle fibers than somebody twice his size who can't come close to squatting as much? I'm talking about greater neurological recruitment of muscle fibers, not the number of muscle fibers themselves. Obviously the bigger bodybuilder has more muscle fibers, but I consider it just as obvious that the stronger powerlifter is recruiting a greater percentage of his muscle fibers. If you don't agree with that, could you please xplain why you don't. I'd be sincerely interested in hearing."

    Ford Prefect, I'm not sure I know that much about neurological recruitment. Perhaps this is relevent, but I'm not sure:

    "According to the size principle for recruitment of motor neurons, the smaller, or low-threshold (low stimuli level needed for activation), motor units are recruited first. Low-threshold motor units are composed predominately of Type I fibers. After low-threshold motor units, progressivly higher-threshold motor units are recruited based on the icreasing demands of the activity. The higher-threshold motor units are composed predominately of Type II fibers. Heavier resistances (e.g., 3 to 5 RM) require the recruitment of higher-threshold motor units than lighter resistances (e.g., 12 to 15 RM). However, according to the size principle, lifting heavier resistances will start with the recruitment of low-threshold motor units (Type II) needed to produce greater force will be recruited as the force required increases."
    ...
    "Exceptions to the recruitment order by size are thought to be related to very high velocity and high-power outputs using trained movement patterns... [t]his means that the low-threshold motor units are not recruited in the activity. They are skipped over so that the high-threshold motor units are recruited first. In fact, the low-threshold motor units may be inhibited to facilitate pwer production."

    -- Fleck and Kraemer, "Designing Resistance Training Programs." Human Kinetics. 1987. pp. 61-62.


    Like I said, I don't know that much about how neurological recruitment relates to muscle recruitment, but the above passage is the closet thing I could find. Perhaps you can derive more information from it than I could.

    Basically, I never thought any more into it than, simply, bodybuilders train to achieve a high level of muscular development, while powerlifters train to achieve a high level of muscle power. At this point I'm not too sure of the neurological differences between the two, if there are any.

    Hope this was of some help,

    Ironman

  11. #11
    Destrous9 Guest
    While the issue of training to failure can be argued, the bigger issue is training intensity. While I hesitate to get into the deep issues of training intenisty (as I could write a book on the nuances), a begining lifter, or a lifter who can burst plateaus should always train to failure. It is in the last few reps of each set in which the muscle experience the greatest stress, and potential for future growth. This is all part of intensity.

    While there are hundreds of ways to boost the intensity without training to failure, I am merely trying to build a good, solid foundation.

    An example of one of my intensity tricks that doesn't invole training to failure is as follows:

    (Using a spotter)
    ***this is a no rest set, with a spotter peeling wieght off immediately between sets***
    Bench 445x3 reps
    Bench 405x5 reps
    Bench 315x12
    Bench 315x10
    Bench 225x12

    This set is an example of no-failure training, and blitzes the pecs, delts, and tri's.

    Advanced intensity training is good for an advanced lifter, and I used it everyday. For a beginner, I don't recommend it.

    There are a thousand ways to lift, and a thousand ideas on the right way. My fundamentals are pretty much agreed upon by the majority in the 'natural' community.

    Please remember each body is different, and I encourage lifters to find what works best for them. Tweak with the system, over time.

    Always remember that intensity is critical, and a good solid base of training to failure is a key ingredient. The first few reps of ech set do little to the muscle, but it is the end of a set that is the most critical. If you're not killing yourself at the end, failure or not, then it's a wasted set.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  12. #12
    Destrous9 Guest
    On the issue of bodybuilders vs. powerlifters, body part size, amount of weight lifted, etc:

    Bodybuilders 'tend' to use more intensity in their training, and generally don't use as much weight as powerlifters. My first five years of training was strictly with 'bodybuilding' in mind.

    Genetics plays a huge roll in everything. My legs, triceps, calves, delts, and back were always huge compared to my biceps and chest, no matter what my strength or bodybuilding program was. Such is genetics. Hatfields legs were big, just not Tom Platzian. Bodyfat always makes a muscle look smaller, or not as impressive.

    Watch the olympic powerlifters, or the strong man competition. They have some of the best physiques, pound for pound. Even the heavyweights have great physiques hidden under the extra lard.

    For a long time I thought bodybuilders needed exercises that isolated specific muscle groups. WHile I believe that these exercises are good to 'pre-exhaust' muscle, I no longer believe they are good for muscle building.

    Alot of natural bodybuilders don't want to be big monsters, as use less weight, and that is fine. Physique 'beauty' is what bodybuilding is all about. My main post is about increasing brute strength, and supplementing your martial arts training.

    I respect everyone's opinion, as there are many ways to build a house. TO build a powerhouse, lift big, and use the fundamentals.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  13. #13
    Destrous9 Guest
    One more note on the subtle differences between bodybuilders and powerlifters.

    Bodybuilders are more 'bodyfat' aware, and during their 8 to 16 week pre-contest phase, they are trying to refine what they have, and generally use less than max weight. Most bodybuilders train heavy (max) the rest of the year though. Exceptions include bodyparts that are already dis-proportionate. (Like legs for me-I would only train them once every 2 weeks, as mine were TOO huge)

    Bodybuilding is a work in progress, with much more tweaking and adjusting. Powerlifting is just that, lifting big. A powerlifter is much less likely to care if his legs are bigger than Tom platz' legs, and therefore less likely to lift with less than max weight.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  14. #14
    IronFist Guest

    Good

    I agree with everything you said except

    "Most bodybuilders train heavy (max) the rest of the year though"

    But, I guess this depends on your definition of "heavy." While there are some pro's who proclaim to train this way or that (ie, HIT, or some other radical method), I don't think most bodybuilders go that "heavy" in the off season.

    Maybe that is just because of my opinion that "heavy" doesn't start until 3RM or less. But, I would say 90% of bodybuilders, including pros, usually don't train at 3RM or under. But then again, everyone is different and part of BB is finding what works for you.

    It's good to see there are some people competent about weight lifting here :D :) :D

    Iron

  15. #15
    Destrous9 Guest
    My definition of heavy is using a weight that challenges a muscle, not just maintains a muscle, if that makes sense. I am not really thinking about reps per se.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

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