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Thread: Strength Training Links

  1. #16
    BIU JI Guest


    Excellent post, it has come at a time I am putting more thought towards my diet with training as I'm training quite alot now . Along with my kung fu things for fitness such as swimming to add but I have little indepth knowledge of nutrition with exercise(MA) etc.

    Your post you say was towards weight training to enhance your MA(if I read correctly). On 3 days of the week I'm training a minmum of six/half hours kung fu each day and now added swimming in the morning and then what I can fit in at home the rest of the week but am guilty of what you say "over training/under feeding". I wish to add more weight training on those 3 days at school so could you suggest a nutritional intake that's suitable for something like kung fu.

    I probably need correction but I see weight training for "Bodybuilding and such" different than the type of training you would do for kung fu. So would then your diet need to vary accordingly as well.I mean kung fu is more arobic so would need a different nutrition intake then you would for purely weight training yes? I hope you can understand my rambling, I know what I want to ask although not quite sure how to word it as it's still sort of new to me.

    So I'm looking to start more weights to enhance my kung fu and am curious as to the recommended nutriional intake for that, would those guides you gave still apply "as is" for this type of training.

    Anyway hope I haven't just made a mess of the basic question! Pleeease help !!


  2. #17
    Destrous9 Guest
    If you practice kung fu heavily, and also swim and lift weights, I would recommend something along these guidelines:

    1) Protein Get at least 100 grams of protein a day, to assist in restoring/rebuilding any damaged muscle tissue. Eat no more than 30-32 grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours.
    2) Complex Carbs With the intense energy expenditure that your training has, make sure you get enough good energy. I would recommend at least 3 servings of rice/pasta a day. If you have a fast metabolism, maybe 4-5 servings. (Note: A serving is the serving size listed on the package/box-not a huge bowl.) Spread these servings out into 2-3 meals a day.
    3) Vitamins, Minerals With your rigid workout/training schedule, make sure you get the proper amount of vitamins and minerals in your diet. I would go heavy on vitamin C for recovery, and the B vitamins.

    --Intake a minimal amount of fat. Do not use a no fat diet.
    --Intake a minimum amount of sodium, or table salt
    --Drink alot of water to flush the kidneys and keep the body healthy. Dehydration is a major stress inducer on the body.
    --Vegatables and fruits! Snack on either when you need a boost
    --Do not eat at least 1.5 hours before training. The body uses alot of blood during the initial digestive stages, and 'eating-then training' will cause your body to revolt. Either the training will be sacrificed, or the proper digestion of the food.
    --No simple sugars during training, or up to one hour after training. i.e. sports drinks. Simple sugars curve testosterone release, and can mess with the bodies natural insulin levels.
    --30 grams of Protein within 1.5 hours after heavy swimming/lifting
    --Deep fried food? Stay away! Especially before training. No french fries :(
    --Fruit, or real fruit juice after training is good.
    --Do not eat heavily immediately after training. If you want a big meal, cool down for at least an hour to 1.5 hours. Eat a piece of fruit to hold you over. I would have a protein drink w/skim milk, and a banana 30 minutes after a heavy workout.
    --The heavier you work out, the more your body needs protein...weightlifting or not. On heavy workout days, 120-150 grams of protein can only help.

    Eat more:
    Bran Muffins
    Orange Juice

    Eat less:
    Fried/Deep fried foods
    High-fat milk (go powdered or skim)
    Processed foods
    White bread
    Simple Sugar (a big one!!)
    Red Meat

    Balance is the key. Do not cut everything out always. A good candy bar/desert/pizza may be needed to make the soul happy. If you are going to indulge in 'bad' foods, try to keep it only 1 day a week. I used to call saturdays 'pigout days'. I could escape my strict diet, relax, socialize with friends and eat what I liked. Sometimes insulting some one's cooking by turing down a meal is bad. Do not sacrifice your friendships over a need to keep the strictest possible diet. Life is life, life is not training. Training is part of life, as are friends. Keep all balanced, and you will be the healthiest. Balance the health of the mind, body, and soul, and all will be well.

    These suggestions really aren't anything 'earth-shattering', but they will help your body perform better. I hope I've help some.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

    [This message was edited by Destrous9 on 04-21-01 at 11:02 AM.]

  3. #18
    Destrous9 Guest
    BIU JI

    I forgot to mention one thing:

    My nutritional/diet guidelines are generally used by all top-level atheletes who are involved in intense training. They can be tweaked some for individuals needs (i.e. more protein for bodybuilding, etc.), but they will work well as a guildline for any type of training you do.

    Stay away from fad diets. If it appears unnatural, it is.

    A runner who eats no protein only harms himself.
    A swimmer who eats no complex carbs only harms himself.
    A wrestler who lives on french fries and sports drinks only harms himself.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  4. #19
    Mr. Nemo Guest
    Biu Ji:

    Just to balance things out...

    You may want to at least check out a low-carbohydrate diet. They're not only for bodybuilders, many other types of atheletes use them. They've certainly worked for me.

    Read some of the low-carb literature and you can decide for yourself whether or not they're "fad diets". Personally, I don't think they are.

  5. #20
    Destrous9 Guest
    I don't really consider 3 servings of rice/pasta a high carb diet. A true serving is not immense.

    Don't forget about muscle glycogen levels, and the negative effects on the body due to diminished glycogen levels.


    Stores of readily available glucose to supply the tissues with an oxidizable energy source are found principally in the liver, as glycogen. A second major source of stored glucose is the glycogen of skeletal muscle. However, muscle glycogen is not generally available to other tissues, because muscle lacks the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase.
    The major site of daily glucose consumption (75%) is the brain via aerobic pathways. Most of the remainder of is utilized by erythrocytes, skeletal muscle, and heart muscle. The body obtains glucose either directly from the diet or from amino acids and lactate via gluconeogenesis. Glucose obtained from these two primary sources either remains soluble in the body fluids or is stored in a polymeric form, glycogen. Glycogen is considered the principal storage form of glucose and is found mainly in liver and muscle, with kidney and intestines adding minor storage sites. With up to 10% of its weight as glycogen, the liver has the highest specific content of any body tissue. Muscle has a much lower amount of glycogen per unit mass of tissue, but since the total mass of muscle is so much greater than that of liver, total glycogen stored in muscle is about twice that of liver. Stores of glycogen in the liver are considered the main buffer of blood glucose levels.


    ...and more from Web MD...

    How can a diet make you lose pounds but not fat? It's all in the way low carbohydrate diets work, says Karin Kratina, MA, RD, a nutrition therapist who specializes in treating weight and eating problems in her private practice located in Gainesville, Fla. She tells WebMD that carbohydrates are broken down into glucose by the body, which in turn either is used immediately for energy or converted into a storage form called glycogen, primarily in the cells of the liver and muscle. Such glycogen is metabolized easily back to glucose, and provides about half of the body's energy supplies daily. Everything from processing a thought to getting from point A to point B requires energy from glycogen, Kratina says.

    "At any [given] time, we have about 1,200 calories of glycogen on board," she says. And for every gram of glycogen stored, so are three grams of water. Therefore, when carbohydrate intake is restricted and the existing stores of glycogen stores are exhausted, the body sheds the stored water, leading to an impressive water "weight loss" within a few weeks.

    Once the glycogen is gone, the body does turn to fat as a fuel source. But in reality, fat is an inferior energy source compared to glycogen. It's like trying to run a car on lighter fluid, says John Acquaviva, PhD, assistant professor of physical education at Roanoke College in Salem, Va. "In ketosis, the body does burn a higher percentage of fat, but overall, less calories are burned," he tells WebMD.

    System Shutdown

    "People need to remember that there are a lot of ways to lose weight, but not all of them are healthy," Acquaviva says. "Starvation is one obvious example." As the body starts to burn stored fat, it creates byproducts called ketones, leading to the state of ketosis.

    If the determined dieter sticks to the plan despite the unpleasant side effects of this state -- including foul acidic breath, fuzzy thinking, and fatigue -- additional pounds will come off. But like the water loss, it is an illusion. The majority of the loss is muscle, not fat, leaving the dieter with a higher body fat percentage and less lean muscle tissue, Kratina says.

    Then the carbohydrate cravings kick in, she says. The body seeks to replace the missing glycogen and restore balance. Dieter Stacy Smith knows this feeling all too well.

    "I'll suddenly crave things like bread, oatmeal, ice cream," she says. "I'll binge, eating three or four bowls of oatmeal at a time." When she does, her body once again stores glycogen and water, leading to a dramatic "weight" gain. The numbers on the scale quickly rise 10 to 15 pounds, reinforcing the idea that carbohydrates are to blame.

    Smith accepts the label of carbohydrate "addict" and goes back on the plan. It becomes a vicious circle of starve, binge, starve, binge.


    Decide for yourself, but always remember balance is the key. The body requires no miracle diets for proper functioning. The body needs glycogen to function properly. Low carb diets are not a healthy solution for the liver, kidneys, muscles, and brain. While they shed water quickly due to the dehydration resulting from low glycogen levels, as stated above, they are not a long term solution for running a healthy, efficient body.

    CMA's are about the body, mind and soul working as they should, in a natural way.

    Think long and hard before 'fadding'.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

    [This message was edited by Destrous9 on 04-21-01 at 04:08 PM.]

  6. #21
    Destrous9 Guest
    I hope this helps some. I do not wish to argue with anyone. I merely want to provide information, and let you decide on what's best for your body.

    We are all adults, and the final say goes to you and your body.

    Health care is my profession, and nutrition has been a personal study long before I undertook this as a profession. I am no expert on everything, but I do see hundreds of people a month for health screenings, and I see disease and decay take over people's lives through improper nutrition.

    Most diets consist primarily of caffeine, simple sugars, saturated fats, and heavily processed foods, etc. Anything that is a step away from this direction is a good step. So in that sense, any healthy diet can be better than the average American's. The question to ask yourself is do you want a better diet, or a diet that is best.

    Better or best are better than worse.

    Good luck.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  7. #22
    Destrous9 Guest
    If anyone wants to discuss this further without creating a monster thread, or has further questions or comments, feel free to post on my message board by Clicking Here.

    I am not always right, nor perfect, but I will always try to assist.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  8. #23
    fiercest tiger Guest

    excellent info

    as bui ji said diet is very important, this has given me motivation to start eating right now!

    thanks guys :D

    come & visit us!

  9. #24
    IronFist Guest

    Weights :)

    Biu Ji,

    Read what Destrous said, he saved me a lot of typing :)

    Eat at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

    Depending of on your body type, you might not have to avoid fat foods that much. If you're an ectomorph you can eat whatever you want and not gain any weight.

    The only problem I've seen with weight training plus kung fu is that after a session of weight lifting, people tend to be too sore to effectively train kung fu. Example, one day you train chest and triceps in the gym, the next day you can't punch well at all because your tri's are sore.

    Sorry to cut this short, I have to go...


  10. #25
    Destrous9 Guest
    You are dead on with the soreness issue.

    If you lift, stretching and hot showers :)

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."

  11. #26
    Mr. Nemo Guest
    Destrous9 posted some good info about the risks of a low-carb diet. But as an advocate of low-carb diets myself, I'm obliged to post this:

    Risks and caveats of low-carb diets

    #1: "Low-carb diets will only make you lose water weight"

    It's true that weight loss from water often creates the illusion that you're losing more weight than you are. In addition to this "false" weight loss, these diets can put at risk for dehydration, which everyone agrees is bad for you.

    However, I've never met a low-carb diet that doesn't advise you to drink a whole lot of water. Some of the more hardcore ones even encourage 1-2 -gallons- a day. If you drink enough water, you should not be at any risk for dehydration. When in doubt, drink an extra glass.

    #2: "On a low-carb diet, you're only burning muscle, not fat."

    While it is possible to put your body in a state where it burns as much muscle as fat for energy, low-carb diets generally avoid this. It is possible to almost entirely eliminate carbs from your diet and lose fat while maintaining all your current muscle. However, it's tricky and requires some supplements.

    These supplements are entirely legal and almost universally considered to be safe. However, if you want to avoid having to pop pills, I can completely understand - I'm suspicious of pills myself (they seem too artificial to me). If you don't want to have to take supplements, there are low-carb diets that don't require any and shouldn't cause you to lose muscle.

    #3: "After a while on a low-carb diets, you'll start to crave carbs and eat a whole lot of them, which will cause you to balloon back up to your previous weight or even higher."

    Any diet requires a certain amount of willpower. When you first start especially you'll probably be craving carbohydrates. However, after about a week you'll adjust to your new eating habits and you won't crave carbs anymore.

    In case you're mistaking me for an expert, you should know that the only diet I've ever had extensive experience with myself is the one called "The Zone" developed by a guy called Barry Sears.

    The zone is not nearly as "low-carb" as most of these diets - 40% of your calories come from carbohydrates (along with 30 from protein and 30 from fat - if you've heard of a "40-30-30" balance this is probably where you heard it).

    Before I started this diet, I weighed ~205 lbs., about 150 of which was lean body mass. I went on the diet for about 5-6 months, and similar to Destrous9, I had days where I'd go off the diet and eat Ice Cream or Wendy's or something (mine were sundays, though, not saturdays. To me dairy queen and the simpsons are the ultimate exercise in decadence).

    In those 5-6 months I went from 205 lbs. 150 lbs. lean body mass to about 180 lbs. 160 lbs. lean body mass (my real precise lbm was actually 157, but I like to round up), and the diet wasn't even that hard (You should also know that that increase in lean body mass involved no weights. I did things like push-ups but didn't use any weights other than my own body). Then I went off it for about 3 months (I only recently got back on it again, and am trying a couple other more extreme low-carb diets these past couple of weeks) When I went off the diet, I did not gain back any weight. I took care not to eat too much, but I still didn't gain back any weight.

    The purpose of this incredibly long-winded post is to give a few points in favor of low-carb diets. In any case, Destrous9 still gave good advice, just be aware that there are other methods.

  12. #27
    BIU JI Guest


    Guys this info is great, I need a degree to sift through it, well if that doesn't help me nothing will . Much appreciated , will start me off just fine. Destrous9 you must have been full on into it by what you've written, a mountain of info. Mountain of a man, geez legs like trees.I could do without a kick from you thanks!
    Once again thanks , I started with the advise and felt better, already reading the packets for the nutrition value, I can see an obsession developing haha. I used the suppliment powders before and found benefits but intend to use it again with a proper diet, what's your advise with those?
    I ought to start paying you a fee soon I'm sure.

  13. #28
    dumog93 Guest

    all good info

    All the above info was very informative.A couple of questions though.I don't powerlift at meets yet,but just to give me a strength advantage(or keep me from having a severe disadvantage)on the ground mainly.#1-why no deadlifts? I think deadlifting is probably the most important lift to a cross-trainer.It has to be the king of compound movements.#2-the lift totals were awesome,but i was wondering what weight class or bodyweight that was done at.I'm currently sitting at a 1200 pound total(305 bench,465 deadlift,435 squat) at 180 pounds of bodyweight and was wondering if i'm lagging bad in strength or if bodyweight was my problem.


  14. #29
    Destrous9 Guest
    Well met, Mr. Nemo :)

    I think we have a good thread, filled with information. Hopefully we have answered a few questions. It is far better to train with all the information, than only one side of the story. From 2 varying sides, one has the opportunity to draw a truth for themself.

    Good training.

    "Deep down inside of all of us is the power to accomplish what we want to, if we'll just stop looking elsewhere."
    Internal Arts Message Board

  15. #30
    BIU JI Guest

    Excuse my ignorance!

    Please briefly explain what a "deadlift " is!If I'm to stay away from them then I need to know what they are.100 grams/day, 30 grams/2.5-3 hours, I'm already counting the proteins and thinking "where can I get more protein/ carbs from?" , interesting though to research diet, seems to be alot of myths out there .


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