Are all MA magazine article application pics doomed to look bad?

[Oso]

I just picked up the latest issues of IKF and KFQG.

IKF had an article on Brendan Lai (rest in peace). In it they showed BL doing two applications of forms in a self defense
or fighting situation.

KFQG had an article by/with Cung Le about san shou and self
defense with pics of specific applications.

Neither sets of apps looked that good.

Now, before anyone starts in with style vs. style, that's NOT
what this is about. Both BL and CL are well respected in their
circles and without so there is no need to go there.

Let's talk about how to improve the medium so to speak.
Everyone here has ripped articles and websites that showed
application. So we obviously know what doesn't look effective
or good.

SO, HOW can you create a set of still images or a vid clip that
is realistic and looks good. Without your training partner going
to the hospital.

The looking 'good' is important because, let's face it, the only real
purpose of these is to promote whatever the person is studying.
If it doesn't look good then people won't be drawn to that style.

[rogue]

Hard to do. If it looks realistic it tends to hide some of the technique, if you show it so it can be viewed it's always staged.

[Chang Style Novice]

I'd say rogue has a big part of the problem addressed right there.

But sometimes things are so bad that you have to wonder how the sequence passed muster in the editing process. I'm talking about the sequences that show one hand throwing a punch, and in the next panel, the punch is blocked - but it's a different hand than the one thrown in the first panel.

Being careful of this kind of glaring (and confusing) continuity error should be the first step.

[Oso]

rogue, right on both points imo.

but if, as a collective, we can't figure out how to make them look
better then we should shut the board down now.

One of the bigger things I see as a problem is that the techniques
are all 'one hitters'. The ubiquitous 'right lunge punch'. Granted
in a street SD sit you will tend to see a high % of wild rights
and lefts. But probably not just one at a time.

Both articles I'm referencing had follow up strikes so not the case
with them but they still had that totally staged look.

I realize of course that the is limited space in a magazine article
but one answer might be fewer articles but more in depth
articles.

or maybe application only articles. maybe a feature article every
month about application only.

[Oso]

csn, true but that's an editing problem and no ma sifu will have
control over the final article layout.

[Chang Style Novice]

Honestly, it never occurred to me that this was an issue that's the responsibility of the subject of the article. As far as I'm concerned, the onus rests squarely on the journalistic end.

[Oso]

csn...

hmmm, well, I could see that that subject of an article approve
a set of images in a particular order and the publisher screw
around with it to get some advertising in.


but, imo, there is something lacking in the images themselves.

no slam on anyone who has ever done any mag articles.

They all look the same for the most part.

which is my point.

let's figure out how to make 'em better.

this may not take off till monday, maybe.

and, dang, Serpent's on sabbatical.

[Chang Style Novice]

yeah, the images are often bad. But the photographer is responsible for getting good photos. The martial artists are only responsible for showing good martial arts.

Ideally, you'd have an experienced martial artist for a photojournalist, layout designer, and editor (as well as the subject of the story.) They'd have to be professional quality photographers, designers, and editors in addition to marital artists in order to get optimum results. I fear that the real problem is there's just not enough money in MA journalism to consistently get people as highly qualified as is probably neccesary to turn out the quality of work we want to see. It's an exceedingly demanding problem, after all.

[Robbie]

Do the same thing you would do for a video. Set up multiple camera angles and go at it with your sparing partner. Agree on a few techniques that you're going to try to get in multiple times. After your done, go to the film and look for a camera shot that shows the technique you wanted and cut out the rest. It won't look as clean as most demos do but it will at least have a realistic set up since you got there naturally. It will also have the advantage of showing all the necessary movement since you are doing it in real time instead of step by step.

[Oso]

robbie

good approach but the final edit will be up to the publisher.

most articles are done, I think, months in advance.

csn does have good point that a lot of it lies with the pub/editor.

so, Gene, why did you let CL's hottie assistant look so do rky?

(I got an edit for d o r k?)

[TaoBoxer]

Anyone who's gonna complan about the photos in the MA mags should first A) try to write an article B) get it accepted and then C) spend 8-10 hours one day trying to get 20 good photo's.

My first experience with this was in 1995 in Tactical Knives. Doing an article on in-fighting knife work required that the author get pics of some close-quarters knife work. It took us literally 4 hours to get 10 usable pics. I had a few articles run last year in KFQG (Thanks Martha!! Thanks Gene!!) and the work for the photo's was grueling. It was an all day event in san antonio.

As with most things in life, it is A LOT harder than it looks, and if you are a stickler for quality, you can double however long you think it is going to take.

Just don't judge us too harshly, please!!

Bill

PS: As far as lag time between writing it and having it hit the news-stand. I wrote an article in late 1999 for the Year of the Dragon, and I think it was published in late '01. It does depend on the needs of the editors and the availability of good materiel.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Very true dao boxer. Having written a number of articles myself...the photos take hours of work not to mention the pre-set up. As well, one has to consider lighting, angles, close up shot vs whole body etc.
I have never seen total action shots look good...in reality they turn out terrible...so any shot has to be posed for it to be printable quality. However, there is no excuse for changing hands etc as mentioned above. But, sometimes photos can be out of sync and that is the fault of the media dept or the author not marking the photos clearly. As well, sometimes the dialog that goes with a photo is changed by the editor so that it does not reflect correctly what is happening in the photo(s).
Of recent though, I have found both KQ and IKF being very particular as to the type and quality of photos for an article submission...Gene Ching has been very good in this dept.

GHD

[dezhen2001]

Oso agreed man

from my own experiences of working on a CMA magazine it can be a very difficult task.

BUT i would say that the photographs to explain the article rest on the writer. Only THEY can explain what they mean by taking good pics... its not up to the magazine. Only in the case of the final layout and how much space can be allocated etc. The magazine can only work with what they are given - thats the nature of editorial design (in regards to non 'inhouse' articles).

Regarding taking the pics themselves: taking movements from a form sequence is easy, applications are much, much harder... especially what we do for example - wing chun which is some very subtle things.

imo it takes someone who understands martial arts in general and knows how to best make use of the composition of pictures to create somehting that conveys good information. Also if u want 'aliveness' then it means using a high speed film, which means a great waste of pictures that arent used. Either that or taking stills from a video clip. it can be pretty expensive and time consuming as said above

The responsibility of the magazine is what they do with the CONTENT the writer supplies. Its up to them to make it visually appealing and readable, so that its clear. That in itself can be very difficult, especially with something complex.

if we take form movements or applications for example... one way to reduce the space needed is to crop and edit out the background... in a sequence of 20 pics that can take a few hours! (roughly 5-10 mins each one)... then you have to worry about how to place them in sequence on the page, fit the text around them, the size... theres a lot that goes in to it and that in itself is time consuming.

Deadlines are NOT very forgiving

Also you have the fact that sometimes articles are sent in late, they dont send the pics, or the WRONG pics, forget to say which order to place them... so many things that can result in things going all wrong. again the magazine can only work with what they are given... otherwise its just empty pages

just some thoughts and experiences
dawood

[Oso]

taoboxer and gold horse dragon

I wasn't expecially criticizing or saying it was easy. I am certainly
not judging harshly. Just observations.

I hope I didn't come off that way, I was attempting to open
dialogue about how to do them better and not bashing anyone's
attempts.

I was hoping some people with actual expereince would reply.

So, were you 100% pleased with the results of your efforts?

If not, then how do you think they could have been better?


Matt

[carly]

The time and effort and film stock involved in trying to create good art to accompany an article on kung fu is considerable. Digital cameras, which let you take lots of shots, examine them immediately, repeat until you get something worthwhile and keep only the best have improved things, but it's still a difficult process.