Qigong for Western Boxing?

[IronFist]

A lot of Chinese styles, especially internal ones, practice strikes very slowly with focus on intent and breathing (taiji for example). For whatever reason this is done, (to get the motion down perfectly, to develop qi, etc.) later on the motion is sped up and can become very powerful when used as a strike (for whatever reason... because the strike is filled with qi, because the biomechanical aspects are ingrained in the nervous system, whatever you want to call it).

Would it be feasible to do this with western boxing strikes? I mean, the fist is closed, so it's probably harder to use qi (if you want to be traditional about it) than it would be through an open palm, but what about practicing, say, a jab, very slowly, keeping in mind all the aspects of the slow martial movements done in taiji, coordinated with the breathing, etc.

Would there be any benefit to such training? Or for western boxing is one just better banging away on heavy bags or slabs of beef? If the latter is true, why don't taiji practicioners bang away on heavy bags?

IronFist

[SevenStar]

I asked this question like a year ago... you'll get mixed oppinions. Most of the internalists say it just doesn't work that way. Externalists say that once you reach a certain level, it becomes internal.

[yenhoi]

I dont see why you cant shadowbox and focus on form, which for a begginer would mean going slower. Remember to keep up the footwork and defense, but focus on form.

Dunno how that really relates into anysort of qigong, but what your talking about isent unheard of.

'Course it doesnt pass the aliveness test so to hell with that crap.

[IronFist]

SevenStar, I didn't mean to steal your question

yenhoi, what's an aliveness test?

IronFist

[SevenStar]

my guess is sparring

[IronFist]

My O/T threads get more responses.



IronFist

[Tainan Mantis]

Ironfist,

On strikes:
In our Mantis training there is no slow strikes to the bag, always full power full speed.

In shadow boxing there is slow/fast striking.
This means that the strike itself is very fast, but the before and after is very slow.
This is to help the student feel where the power is coming from and where it is going.
This is not an advanced training.

On chi:
I know many will disagree, but this is our take.

The strike itself has no chi...
but there is chi when you strike.
The chi is air, that tangible substance, not metaphysical.
In practice the body has air inside, like a big ball full of air. This must be kept under pressure so that when I get struck my internal organs are not damaged.
This should be no surprise to people who practice with hard contact.

Also, the body is a weapon, like a log or battering ram which uses the chest, butt, hips shoulders etc to strike the opponent, the body should be filled with air when doing these strikes.

To test and practice, there are exercises where the partners smash these parts of the body together.
If no partner then done on a tree.

This clip shows some strikes where both people are filled with air on hitting and being hit.
It is a practice method only.
The "hook punch" is striking with the inside of the forearm to the neck, different from the boxing type hook punch.

Deng Ta

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by IronFist

Would there be any benefit to such training? Or for western boxing is one just better banging away on heavy bags or slabs of beef?

I believe that it can be benefitial.
One of the reasons for the slow training is that flaws in the movement/brathing become obvious and thus can be corrected.

Doing Forms slow is only part, they are practiced at different speeds.

Some forms like Yang Small Fame (Advanced Form) contains lots of postures(100+, not sure of exact number) and are done in less than 2~3 minutes.

In one external style I learned to punch by first pressing my Fist against the Wall and than to slowly increase distance and hit the wall.

If the latter is true, why don't taiji practicioners bang away on heavy bags?

Who sez we don't?

Have a look for TJQ strength training and similar.
Metal Pipe, Pole shaking, Tai Chi Ball, etc.

[Laughing Cow]

IronFist.

If you are interested in how we develop internal concepts in Chen TJQ, let me know and I can put together a set of articles with explanation/exercises by a well-known practicioner that also writes for one of the TJQ magazines.

[Tvebak]

One of my friends box and in their class they also do som slowmotion punching exercises to perfect the technique and some slowmotion downwards punches holding weights to train to pull the punch back quickly.
In my Internal arts class in DK the taichiguys also do punches on matresses (as we have no punchbacks).

[MightyB]

the only time you go slow, is when you're first learning the technical aspects of the punch, counter punch, stance, footwork etc., or are warming up. It's done at a slower speed until you get the hang of it or are warmed up-- about 15 minutes.

You then practice with speed. Speed to lead, punches in bunches, broken rhythm-- you've heard them all before. How you train is how you fight. You won't have Tommy "the Hitman" Hearns's power, or "Sugar" Ray Leonard's speed if you practice hitting the bag, shadow boxing, sparring, and mit drills slowly. That's why boxing trainers have punch counters and timers. One way a boxer practices to get more speed is they take one round's time (2 minutes for amateurs) and they hit a heavy bag constantly for that time. They focus on speed, not power, and they get a total punch count. They then try and build on that punch count every time they practice.

About chi kung... Matt Furey claims that there are "old school" chi kung like exercises in boxing and wrestling. One that he described in his fitness letter is to inhale deeply through the nose, and then hold it while compressing your abdominal muscles. Hold it about 3 to 5 seconds then exhale. He says to do 20 reps like that to build strength.

[count]

I don't see why a chi kung set couldn't be created around boxing. First of all, not all chi kung is slow or soft. Chi kung is more about intent than speed. Fists can be closed if the intent is soft on the inside and hard on the outside or visa versa. Hsing-I five elements chi kung uses fists. Why not create a set based on boxing. It would probably require a strong foundation in some other method of chi kung already though. And than, would it be necessary?

[ShaolinTiger00]

Breathing with the punches is very important to a western boxer but has little need for praticing anything slow to cultivate this.

[yenhoi]

IF: that was a smart ass comment. There is a thread about "why forms arent alive" which should have plenty of infomation, or just goto www.straightblastgym.com for more marketing, er training, info concerning "aliveness."

Basically a fancy *buzzword* for sparring, or a fully resisting opponent.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by MightyB
About chi kung... Matt Furey claims that there are "old school" chi kung like exercises in boxing and wrestling. One that he described in his fitness letter is to inhale deeply through the nose, and then hold it while compressing your abdominal muscles. Hold it about 3 to 5 seconds then exhale. He says to do 20 reps like that to build strength.

Matt Furey also claims that he's currently receiving training instruction from the spirit of the (deceased) Farmer Burns. I'd tend to take anything he says with a pound or two of salt.