Authentic Shaolin?

[tigercrane]

Hello everybody!

I was just curious as to what are the "Authentic" forms of Shaolin Kung Fu. I have a friend who is studying from a "Shaolin" school here in Alaska. There has been rumors that this school is a fake, but nothing substantial. The schools curriculum teaches several animal forms such as the Dragon, Tiger Crane, and others. I also believe they teach Qi Gong and have a form called the Water Form. The Sifu, Dao Sifu Hasaan (he says he is from the middle east) claims to be a "Shaolin Priest" who trained in a tiger cage. Who can pierce his fingers through a tree and can perform other amazing feats! I am not sure what to believe. What do you all think about this so called Shaolin Priest

[Brad]

Fake. Very, very fake. There are no non-chinese "Shaolin Priests".

[Kung Lek]

well how do you know that Brad?
do you have the big book of who's who in the shaolin priesthood?

not to be testy or anything, but there are far stranger things in the world than you or i have born witness to.

peace

Kung Lek

[Brad]

Ok, I'll say I reamain very HIGHLY SKEPTICAL. I guess being a Christian, it would be pretty hypocritical if I said something was imposible. If he's a modern priest, you could contact the Shaolin Temple and ask them. If he was trained in a tiger cage how could he have studied Buhdism in the Shaolin Temple? To be a Buhdist Priest in China you have to have a degree in Buhdism. If he's not from the modern temple he would have to be REALLY old. I would also think there would of been some stories about a non-chinese shaolin monk.

[Kung Lek]

ha ha.

pretty logical train of thought and you have full right to be sceptical and ask questions.

bodhiDharma was not chinese though and Shaolin was not exclusive to the Chinese throughout it's history as it is not today.

Of course the majority of "priests" to leave through the gates would be chinese as there is a geographical situation to consider.

But not all Buddhist priests are chinese just as not all Shaolin are chinese.

You are right, that he would definitely have to be old having left the temple prior to the final destruction in 1928 which means even if he was a young master at the time, he would be extremely aged now.

If he is from the "new" temple, thenthe likelihood of him being a "priest" is unlikely as religion is not tolerated in china in any form.
Buddhism is only recognized as a philosophical study in china and therefore there is no organization to do the "religious" indoctrinations required for one to actually become a priest.

but, through some strange twist of fate, his claims may be true, the thing is, ya never really know when it comes to the Shaolin order which has existed beyond the temple walls as well as within them for the most part of its history.

This means, one can be indoctrinated into the shaolin order without ever having even been to the temple at henan.
it would be a matter of entering discipleship under a Shaolin master and priest who did bring the study and practices out of the temple.

There are Ch'an Priests who practice Kung Fu, Chi Kung and Yoga and have nothing to do with the Shaolin order, even though Ch'an was created and practiced at Shaolin almost exclusively for many many years.

For a small look at how that would come to be, check out a really good site about ch'an in the modern era at www.hsuyun.org

some interesting things about the founder and the organization can be found there.

peace

Kung Lek

[HuangKaiVun]

Can Dao Sifu Hassan help you become a better fighter and person?

That's the big question.

[lee69]

all buddhist preists have some sort of written proof that they are what they are ask for that proof and if he has any troubles producing it be doubtfull as for the tree pearcing fingers if he really can do it than there is somthing you can learn from him weither he is a fake or not

tyron

[Shaolin Temple]

http://www.shaolin.nl/

visit this site and have your eyes opened...order the dvd or vcd...you will not regret it.

Amitabha.

[tigercrane]

To tell you the truth, I find the group really weird. They teach at the Univ and their class have a bunch of people who are all in black (not kung fu uniforms) and wearing Ninja tabis. At one time I asked one of them if they sparred in class and all I got was, "Well we don't spar because we might kill someone with our shaolin." This is coming from a guy who has only trained for 3 months. I also asked about their curriculum. They told me the first form they learn is called the water form. Basically all it is a series of Backfist using a front stance, moving 45 degrees back and forth. I guess the next form they teach is a form called first shaolin. Then when I asked about how many forms they have, they told me something like "Oh, we have literally hundreds of forms which were brought by Dao Sifu Hassaan from the Shaolin temple." I dunno guys? What do you all thing and what are the forms found in Shaolin Kung fu?

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

dunno about the tabis, but straight black uniforms for kf schools is quite common.
I have seen it many many times, wherein all the students will wear black uniforms in class.

there are some schools where they dress up like monks. this is a little more suspect to me. Why would you want to emulate that which you are not?
I find those kinds of places a little strange, but who knows, if the kf is good the kf is good period.

and then there are the schools where all the students look like nascar racers in their over patched gis covered in adverts and patches for this or that product. I guess it's ok to have sponsors for a school, but I am not that big on blatant commercialism in the traditional martial arts.

well, that's my rant

peace

Kung Lek

[Shaolin Temple]

A kung fu school that wears black, white, and etc has no significance on style.

Over the years, many so called kung fu masters in the 70's suddenly arose from karate. Bruce Lee made kung fu well known and so in order to get on that band wagon, a lot of sensei (karate instructors) started to change their signs. I have even seen some such as...Kung fu karatedo. Huh???

In those times, martial arts instructors would use fear or anger to gain respect. The uniform was part of it. In China, black kung fu uniform is used to indicate your style. e.g. blue for mo tong, grey for Hung tung, black for mo lum and etc.

In modern day schools, they choose black as well because it is trendy, easier to manage and doesn't get dirty as much.

Just remember, What does 'Kung Fu' mean?

Like many other terms used in connection with the
Martial Arts today, the term 'Kung fu' is often mis-applied. Translated literally, kung fu means 'excellence through hard work' or 'skilled
achievement'. Therefore one could be said to display 'kung fu' at cooking or at computer programming.

There is nothing inherently martial about the term, but in the 1950s, the Hong Kong film industry started using the two characters 'Kung Fu' for their martial arts action movies and the phrase has been closely associated with Chinese Martial Arts ever since - particularly in the
West.

Professionals refer to the practice of Chinese martial arts as 'Wu Kung' or 'Wu Shu' which connote the specific martial (Wu) development of skill (Kung) or art (Shu).

So try out their classes and if you find that most part of the class involves you practicing stance...it sounds quite kosher.

If I offended anyone...that was unintentional.

Amitabha.

[Sun_Tzu]

Shaolin priests do not own the market on Shaolin Kungfu. As a matter of fact the northern Shaolin animal systems were controlled by certain families, thats right, blood lineage. The Shaolin masters left China between 1928-1933. The current
temple and its so called priests, are a sham and nothing can be proven by contacting them. Although it is likely this school is a sham anyway.

....The skilled commander

[Kung Lek]

Sun Tzu-

You are incorrect in stating that the Shaolin Masters left Chine from 28-33. That is not true.
please look up and study a little about the Monk Hai Deng for the needed "proof" of that fact.
Thereare of course others, but Hai Deng has been most thoroughly documented.

secondly you are correct that the shaolin arts have not been exclusive to the monastic order of Shaolin for some time.

Even before 1928, the Shaolin systems were out of the temple and being practiced by the common man in many villages with many village masters and adaptations of the systems taking place.

peace

Kung Lek

[chris.n]

Guys Guys c'mon......
Surely you can't believe that this guy can actually pierce trees with his fingers.
I've practiced many destruction techniques over the years, purely for demonstration purposes and i've seen many demonstrations by some top practitioners but I would be very suspicious about someone who claims to have trained in a tiger cage and can pierce trees with his fingers..
(Sounds to me like he has been watching too many films)...

Shaolin 1

[Sun_Tzu]

I did not say all the monks Left, I said the masters Left. The main reason for the animal masters leaving was the fact that certain family lines controlled the monastary and the animal systems. It was a matter of prestige, exclusiveness. That is what the communist government was opposed to most. That is why the Northern masters were put on a hit list. Although not all were, some "monks" were not in opposition to the government because they thought the communist would leave them alone. If you look at the temple today, whether fake or not, the systems they promote are conglomorations. The individual animal systems are not there. I want to make it clear I said systems not forms or style. Forms and style are traits of a system.

....The skilled commander