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Thread: Vegetarian

  1. #16
    Most cancers only happen to meat-eaters.
    I can tell you for a fact, this isn't true. The only cancer this applies to is colon or intenstinal cancer (mainly to red meat eaters who don't get enough fiber). And that's only because the waste hangs out there so long it can possiblly turn cancerous.

    However, people who eat meat can have a host of other problems though. There are possible heart problems for red meat eaters. For all you people who like chicken, science still isn't sure of the long term effects of the hormones the chickens get pumped with. Open water fish are subject to pollution. Farmed fish are subject to whatever chemicals are put into their food. All in all though, fish are probably the lesser of the "evils". Then again, some of the alternatives aren't that healthy either. Many types of vegetarian diets include the use of beans as a source of protein. Unless you want spend an hour or so soaking dry beans prior to cooking, most people would buy canned beans (I'm loyal to Goya myself ). In that case, you have to worry about whatever preservatives are used to maintain color and consistency. I'd have to check this, but for all I know, dry beans have preservatives too...

    I've said it before, veganism is the Diet of the Future.
    This is a little over the top.
    "Face it. People are fukked. Why would you want a career helping anyone? Go find a mountain and farm sheep for a living." - Serpent on Personal Training

    "Its a cool show, but I think this young super man is a very stupid mother ****er." - yenhoi on Smallville

    "They could have had the tagline "Watch Joe Millionaire. More stuff will happen," and they'd have been there." - eulerfan on TV watching Americans

    "Anyway, I used to pick girls up all the time in the gym when I was in college. We'd hang out until the aerobics classes ended, and then swoop in while all their endorphins were still pumping.

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel." - ghthomason on dating

    "I would say that there is a greater chance of a paper dog catching and asbestos cat in hell, while in the lost city of Atlantis, Elvis and Ghengis Khan are using butterfly nets to catch the opera-singing monkeys flying out of my butt, but that implies there's still a chance." - Starboy on optimism

  2. #17
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    David,

    There is pros and cons in all one side diets. I would say that it is true that there is equally amount of medical and scientific evidence the cons of eatting a meat based diet and a mainly veg diet. Yes, even eatting vegs alone has its medical problems, David. But I am not telling you how to eat or to change your ways. I personally believe in freedom and choices and all I asked is people be responsible for the way they live.

    There are benefits in eatting meats and vegs which can't be deny. Soley meat eaters cant really deny the benefits of fruits and veg and veggie lovers cant deny the benefits of meats. If your reasons are based on faith and the spirit, then you can't force your faith on others. If your reason is based on money, then you should consider your morals? Something has to die for me to live whether it be plant life or animal life. How much faith you place on the value of life on plants and animal is rather subjective. As long we dont abuse them or posion them, I eat them. I eat both meats and vegs and fruits. I am on the "warrior diet" and I am a responsible health conscious person because I only eat organic products and do my best to eat a healthy balance of fruits, vegs, and meats. That is all I have say about that.

    Last note, no one food source is ever a good idea for a diet be it meat or veg or fruits in my opinion. Your vision of the future for a purely veg diet is over the top. It is a facist or nazi vision against us who eat mainly or some meats in our diets. I hope never to live in those times, because I might be like chicken, fish, or pig boot legger or dealer. Yes, I am some dark alley somewhere in new york city selling meat products on the down low; maybe I am in Harlem, or the Lower East Side. I hear sirens and I drop a couple of pork chops because the vegan FiveOs are here and so I run and run until I get hit with a banana boomarang on my head and neck by a five o vegan pig. I get bagged for selling illegal organic meat products and the judge sentenced me to prison for 5 to 10 for having 50 lbs of meat products. But I may get parole within 2 years with good behavior and eatting only vegs. In the future prisions, all prisoners are farmers. LoL My vision of the future if David's vision became true.

    Best Cheers.
    Last edited by Mr. Bao; 02-17-2003 at 07:41 AM.
    Mr. Bao

    "A gung fu man, then, should be soft-yet not yeilding; firm-yet not hard." Lee Jan Fan

  3. #18
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    Hmmm

    If Vegansim is the diet for the future than I adhere to the Tao and remain in the present. I think Vegan diets are not suited to a lot of modern lifestyles and that a blanket conscription to a vegan diet would bring about a whole plethora of ailments and complaints. For those who have sedentary or contemplative lives with strong spiritual influences I know that this kind of diet is preferable and also required. But I know for a fact that my life would have to undergoe some serious sacrafices to instill a vegan diet, and to be honest I have great health reservations to this kind of diet anyway. Coming from a TCM poit of view I would stick to my Chang-Ming diet as opposed to a vegan.
    " Don't confuse yourself with someone who has something to say " - The Fall

    " I do not like your tone/ It has ephemeral whingeing aspects " - The Fall

    " There are twelve people in the world/ The rest are paste " - Mark E Smith

  4. #19
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    Smile Whoa!

    Pages to read there! No time just now except for this.

    Star Boy mentioned my incorrectitude about meat/cancer. I will restate it: 12 of the 16 top killer cancers only occur in meat/dairy consumers. I'll go get references later.

    -David

  5. #20
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    FYI : dry beans - cook them in a pressure cooker. Some people put a silver fork in there as a "boiling stick" makes it go faster.

    I absolutely love beans, when they are prepared correctly. For the record, I am an omnivore.

  6. #21
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    Oh, P.S. I have killed a rooster by breaking its neck, unfortunately my technique was bad - you have to pull apart as well as twist - so the poor bird suffered longer then it should have. But for me, it was a very good experience and I totally agree that you should be willing to kill, as well as gut or watch someone gut any animal that you are willing to eat.

  7. #22
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    I would be willing to kill an animal so I can eat it, but i am no expert and probably do more harm than good. That is why i go to the Supermarket and get my food. I am city boy, i am not farmer nor a butcher or hunter. We city folks do what we can... Personally, I have watched an animal being killed by expert and it did not disturbed me. I have also observed a dead body being examined as I ate my roast beef sandwich with no problem as well in college.

    What got me sick. What is most disturbing to me is watching how wealthy people buy things for their cute little million dollars blue blooded over priced pets that could have paid my way to college or save human lives. That is f%$#ing disturbing to me. There are people who have ton of money to waste on petty things but the sad fact is there are less fortunate people out there like some sincere ghetto youth intellect who is unable to get a proper higher education or the old senior who cant get proper medical treatment. I do not hate the rich, but this shows where our values are at this present moment.

    My 3 Cents.
    Last edited by Mr. Bao; 02-17-2003 at 01:35 PM.
    Mr. Bao

    "A gung fu man, then, should be soft-yet not yeilding; firm-yet not hard." Lee Jan Fan

  8. #23
    Star Boy mentioned my incorrectitude about meat/cancer. I will restate it: 12 of the 16 top killer cancers only occur in meat/dairy consumers. I'll go get references later.
    I'm very wary of this study. There are a lot of meat/dairy consumers out there. There are also a lot of other causes of the cancer, and tying it to this huge population (which consists of most of America) seems like a reach. Many meat consumers also eat at McDonald's (though not me personally), don't exercise regularly, and have a generally unhealthy diet (too many twinkies and such). People who are vegan/vegetarian tend to be more health conscious in general and would therefore have less of a cancer risk. But this isn't to say that someone who is vegan is necessarily healthier than someone who eats meat.

    FYI : dry beans - cook them in a pressure cooker. Some people put a silver fork in there as a "boiling stick" makes it go faster.
    I don't have a pressure cooker. I have a rice cooker, I don't suppose that would work?
    "Face it. People are fukked. Why would you want a career helping anyone? Go find a mountain and farm sheep for a living." - Serpent on Personal Training

    "Its a cool show, but I think this young super man is a very stupid mother ****er." - yenhoi on Smallville

    "They could have had the tagline "Watch Joe Millionaire. More stuff will happen," and they'd have been there." - eulerfan on TV watching Americans

    "Anyway, I used to pick girls up all the time in the gym when I was in college. We'd hang out until the aerobics classes ended, and then swoop in while all their endorphins were still pumping.

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel." - ghthomason on dating

    "I would say that there is a greater chance of a paper dog catching and asbestos cat in hell, while in the lost city of Atlantis, Elvis and Ghengis Khan are using butterfly nets to catch the opera-singing monkeys flying out of my butt, but that implies there's still a chance." - Starboy on optimism

  9. #24
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    I don't know about a rice cooker. A crock-pot will work, but it takes longer. You can also do the soak-overnight thing.

    I have heard that certain cancers are almost unknown in vegetarian countries like India, although I do think we should be mindful of the fact that alot of the population doesn't even make it to an age where some of these cancers will afflict them.

    US is the cancer capital of the world, from what I understand. Maybe it's all the industry and power lines, coupled with relatively long life spans??

    Oh and burnt red meat is said to be carcinogenic.


    Eat more fish, folks. But watch out for mecury and other pollutants.

  10. #25
    I don't know about a rice cooker. A crock-pot will work, but it takes longer. You can also do the soak-overnight thing.
    I might try the soak overnight. As much as I love Goya in a can, I can't help but wonder if my sodium intake is a little much.

    US is the cancer capital of the world, from what I understand.
    That is true. If Americans really knew all of the carcinogens that they are exposed to every day, they would deport. Believe it or not, almost all soaps, shampoos, and toothpastes have carcinogens in it (SLS). Also, plastic wrap releases carcinogens into your food if you microwave it (I only nuke ceramics). If you live anywhere near a factory, I'd be really careful about your drinking water. I always use a Brita filter, but that might not be enough.

    And that's just the start of a very long list.

    Eat more fish, folks. But watch out for mecury and other pollutants.
    No kidding there. The worst part about fish is that a lot of times you can't tell if it's safe until too late.

    It's hard to see how the US has the fattest people in the world when you really can't eat most of the food here.
    "Face it. People are fukked. Why would you want a career helping anyone? Go find a mountain and farm sheep for a living." - Serpent on Personal Training

    "Its a cool show, but I think this young super man is a very stupid mother ****er." - yenhoi on Smallville

    "They could have had the tagline "Watch Joe Millionaire. More stuff will happen," and they'd have been there." - eulerfan on TV watching Americans

    "Anyway, I used to pick girls up all the time in the gym when I was in college. We'd hang out until the aerobics classes ended, and then swoop in while all their endorphins were still pumping.

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel." - ghthomason on dating

    "I would say that there is a greater chance of a paper dog catching and asbestos cat in hell, while in the lost city of Atlantis, Elvis and Ghengis Khan are using butterfly nets to catch the opera-singing monkeys flying out of my butt, but that implies there's still a chance." - Starboy on optimism

  11. #26
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    I personally like the aggressive energy. **** it, that is what makes us new yorkers tough! LoL. I think you are right, the Buddhists believe eating veg will make you natural less violents, but I am guessing if you chemical imbalance, no matter diet, you are bound to be a natural born killer.

    From my observation, most veg lovers have soft looking bodies. This isn't bad, but not for me. I mostly see this in buddhist monks who have soft bodies. What do they care how they look, like they will get some tails anyways.
    Mr. Bao

    "A gung fu man, then, should be soft-yet not yeilding; firm-yet not hard." Lee Jan Fan

  12. #27
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    David, I researched vegatarianism before I tried it and gave it an honest try. It just didn't suit me; to many carbs and not enough protein. As far as the blood-type diet being discredited I doubt it, I believe it makes a lot of sense. But remember that most doctors and the AMA don't want us doing anything that doesn't involve expensive drugs. As Dave Barry said, "Most doctors tell us that vitamen supplements are a waste of money because they can't charge us for them. If the only way we could take vitamins was to have a $100,000 trap door installed in our heads doctors would say everyone needed them!"
    Big egos are fragile.

    Where the violent see only violence, the skillfull can see skill.

    "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that existed when it was created." Albert Einstein

  13. #28
    But remember that most doctors and the AMA don't want us doing anything that doesn't involve expensive drugs
    I can't emphasize how true this is. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and the greed is just blatant. At the retail pharmacy where I work, we have this rack of "pharmacist recommended" products. One of the things on the rack is a diet pill. I have never seen an honest pharmacist recommend a diet pill to anyone. In fact, most pharamacists recommend against it. There was also one of those creams that guys can use so they last longer with the ladies (or other guys, depending on which way you go ). But a pharmacist would never really recommend something like that either. Everything else on the rack was a gimick too. We're healthcare professionals and the company actually thinks we're going to let people buy this garbage? Anytime someone tries to buy, or even look at that rack, I tell them that nothing there is really pharmacist recommended, and some of the products could do permanent damage. I think that some pharmacist for the company was offered a hefty bonus if they could compile this list of "recommended" products. Oi...
    "Face it. People are fukked. Why would you want a career helping anyone? Go find a mountain and farm sheep for a living." - Serpent on Personal Training

    "Its a cool show, but I think this young super man is a very stupid mother ****er." - yenhoi on Smallville

    "They could have had the tagline "Watch Joe Millionaire. More stuff will happen," and they'd have been there." - eulerfan on TV watching Americans

    "Anyway, I used to pick girls up all the time in the gym when I was in college. We'd hang out until the aerobics classes ended, and then swoop in while all their endorphins were still pumping.

    It's like shooting fish in a barrel." - ghthomason on dating

    "I would say that there is a greater chance of a paper dog catching and asbestos cat in hell, while in the lost city of Atlantis, Elvis and Ghengis Khan are using butterfly nets to catch the opera-singing monkeys flying out of my butt, but that implies there's still a chance." - Starboy on optimism

  14. #29
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    Buddhism

    I don't think the reasoning for Buddhists to not eat is for the fact that it will break one of their promises of refuge in harming or having a hand in the suffering of other creatures. So it's a spiritual reason NOT a dietary reason.
    " Don't confuse yourself with someone who has something to say " - The Fall

    " I do not like your tone/ It has ephemeral whingeing aspects " - The Fall

    " There are twelve people in the world/ The rest are paste " - Mark E Smith

  15. #30
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    The budhha ate bad pork and was food poisoned before he died. You are right that they do not kill, but eating plant life is killing as well in my book. Something has to die inorder for us to live. I say before the value of animals and plant life is rather subjective. If you feel so much compassion for the animals and not plants, then why don't you feel compassion for plant life because it can't speak and communicate its pain and misery? Where is the moral holiday there? This is rather a moral judgement which I do care to think about nor do I care about. It just as fine for me that I know my own moral and intellectual reasonings why I eat what I eat. Lastly, one of their moral reasonings from what I learned at Chan temple is based on their observation that animals who eat plant life are less violent then animals who eat meat. I am telling you this wrong or right just communicating what I learned.
    Mr. Bao

    "A gung fu man, then, should be soft-yet not yeilding; firm-yet not hard." Lee Jan Fan

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