Vegetarian

[prana]

I have read no arguments here that dissuade me from the knowledge that humans are and have always been omnivorous.

I guess it depends on your definition of humans. WHat I wrote above was "h0m0-h0m0sapiens" but it got censored

But I wonder what the non-vegetarians will draw conclusions from the fact that the vegetarian era had smaller brains

[Ming Yue]

Oh THATs what you wrote. I couldn't quite pick two cuss words that made sense there.... I didn't realize h0m0 would get censored

Oh come on now, I don't really have to define what I meant by "human" now, do I? We've only been covering it for about 9 pages.

I'm still not buying a "vegetarian era"..... can you point me to some evidence, perhaps reference an exact timeframe? Did I miss it in an earlier post? I don't buy it.

(she says while dragging the smelly carcass of a long dead and much pummelled horse into the room)

[prana]

I saw in on a documentary from the dudes who did "The Human Body" on TV. Wether it is reliable info, hmmmm me dunno. But not like I have an opinion of wether we should or should not be vegeterians so either way makes no difference to me

[abobo]

I was going to post this in one of the beef threads, but it relates to this one too.

Look at this, will you:
http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

http://www.epa.gov/ncea/dioxinqa.htm#f3

I'm no expert, but when it says something comes from animal fats that are commonly eaten, and that there are no safe levels, I'm thinking that it's a bad thing.

[RAF]

http://www.actionpa.org/

http://www.actionpa.org/directory.html

Part I:
How to Overthrow Corporate Rule in 5 Not-so-easy Steps

Resources and information on fighting corporate power, democratizing our government and freeing people's time.
Many people are spending a lot of their time volunteering to stop specific environmental threats, to address a specific labor issue, or to stop various other corporate abuses to our communities. The number of problems seems endless. Isn't there a faster way to save the world?

This page is devoted to those who are interested in getting to the root of society's problems. How nice would it be if our government wasn't answering to their corporate masters, but to community concerns? How much easier would our efforts be if people weren't so overworked and had more time to volunteer? Wouldn't it be great to have the media reporting critically on serious community issues rather than pandering to the the interests of their wealthy owners and advertizers?

These are the reforms that make other reforms possible. If fighting for institutional change is too difficult for you, jump down to the section on personal things you can do to consume less.


Take away their money:

Stop privatization / Re-socialize systems
Privatized systems mean that corporations get to profit from providing important social services which could be provided by (hopefully democratically-controlled) public bodies. Get involved in efforts to stop privitization of schools, municipal water/sewer systems, trash collection or other social services. Better yet, get involved in efforts to put services like health care or electric power under public control.
White Paper on Privatization
Polaris Institute

Public Services International Research Unit

Boycott / protest big corporations
Withdraw your support from large corporations by consuming less and supporting local, small businesses when possible.
Corporate Dirt Archives (learn what's wrong with specific corporations)
What should I buy?? (personal things you can do to consume less)

Fight corporate "wealthfare"
Get corporations off the public dole and work to stop subsidy abuse by opposing things like public funding for private stadiums, excessive and unneeded highway projects and other tax breaks, subsidies and bailouts which are not in the public interest. Welfare is for people, not corporations!
Corporate Welfare Information Center
Electoral/democracy:

Public financing of elections
Get corporate money out of our elections!
Corporate Control of Government (the basics on public campaign financing)
Public Campaign (a national group working to get private/corporate money out of our elections)
Researching Your Politicians (info on who is funding your politicians plus resources on corporate control of elections)

Ballot access / 3rd parties
Support efforts to help 3rd parties get on the ballot and challenge the two corporate parties!
Green Party
Ballot Access News


Initiative and Referendum
Put more decisions directly in the hands of the voters. If your state doesn't allow initiative and referendum, join others to pass a law to allow for it. If you already have it in your state, get involved with ballot initiatives and use it to press for further democracy measures.
Ballot Initiative Strategy Center
Initiative & Referendum Institute / Ballot Watch

Instant runoff voting
Don't let the government make you pick the "lesser of two evils" when you vote. With instant runoff voting, you can vote your conscience without fear by picking your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices (and so on). Start by putting this electoral process into practice on the local level - in your town, county or state.
Center for Voting and Democracy

Democratize media
The majority of all media in the U.S. is now owned by only six mega-corporations. Join movements to democratize media. Democracy is impossible without being able to hear voices of dissent.
Media Reform Information Center


Democratize your university
Colleges and universities are increasingly being controlled by corporate interests for their own gain. Work with others to pry education out of the corporate grip.
180: The Movement for Democracy and Education

Structural attacks:

Local ordinances which attack corporate rights
Work on the local or state level to exert the rights of people over corporations.
Challenging Corporate Authority (Part of the Alliance for Democracy's Campaign to Transform the Corporation)
Anti-Corporate Success Stories (ReclaimDemocracy.org)
CELDF Corporations & Democracy Program

Getting corporations out of our grade schools
Throughout the U.S., local school boards are the easiest public office to run for and win. Take over your local school board if necessary and work to get corporate influence out of public schools.
Unplug! - The Center for Commercial-Free Public Education

Fighting globalization
Think globally, act locally! Build community awareness of "free trade" agreements and hold your congressperson and senators accountable for their votes. Pass "WTO-free zone" resolutions and other local expressions of opposition to trade agreements which would trump the rights of local and state governments to protect citizens from corporate abuses. If you can, act globally as well by gathering people to go with you to rallies and protests against major corporate globalization conferences.
Global Trade Watch
Global Exchange
Mobilization for Global Justice
Independent Media Centers
Protest.net
Human/worker rights:

30 hour work week
30 hours work for 40 hours pay! Thanks to union organizing in years past, we now have the weekend, 8 hour work-days and 40 hour work weeks. In 1933, the 30 hour work week nearly became law when both the U.S. Senate and House passed it only to have it vetoed by President Roosevelt (who later regretted doing so). Sharing the work reduces unemployment and gives working people more personal time, which can free people up for move civic engagement.
Center for a New American Dream
Downsizing vs. Timesizing
The Free Time / Free People Project
"The End of Work" book by Jeremy Rifkin (Notes from the book; Order here)

Universal health care
Make the 30 hour work week possible by making health care a right (covering all people through one "single-payer" governmental system), not a privilege (where just certain working people are covered through multiple bureaucratic insurance corporations) and removing the incentive for corporations to avoid hiring full time workers.
Physicians for a National Health Program
Everybody In Nobody Out
Universal Health Care Action Network
Just Health Care Campaign (Labor Party)
Health Care Action Group (Alliance for Democracy)

Redesign Corporations:

Take away their personhood; Roll back their rights and definitions; Revoke corporate charters
Work towards the day when our states attorneys general revoke the charters of offending corporations and when state legislatures change their incorporation codes, rolling back the "rights" of corporations to where they used to be.
Fixing Corporations--Part 1: Legacy Of The Founding Parents
Fixing Corporations--Part 2: Corporations For The Seventh Generation
Program on Corporations, Law & Democracy (POCLAD)
Ending Corporate Governance
Reclaim Democracy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[RAF]

How to Overthrow Corporate Rule in 5 Not-so-easy Steps
(continued)


What should I buy??
How do I avoid supporting so many bad things when I buy stuff??
A mini-guide to a more sustainable lifestyle
TradeLocal (www.tradelocal.org) puts out a booklet called "A Citizen's Guide to Buying Locally - Positive Alternatives to Corporate Globalization." Call them at 804-760-8628 to order a copy.

Also, Co-op America (www.coopamerica.org) has useful catalogs and other info on "socially responsible" products.

In general, here's what you can do to avoid consumerism and withdraw support from the worst of corporate behaviors:


don't watch TV
buy only what you NEED; don't buy things on impulse / don't "shop" - just buy what you went for
take your own bag; refuse to take paper or plastic disposable bags (a receipt is all you need)
never buy anything in plastic number 3 or 6 (3 is PVC, a chlorinated plastic; 6 is polystyrene, which is also not safe) visit www.ejnet.org/plastics/ for background.
avoid plastic in general; buy things in glass, paper or metal containers when possible; if you must buy plastic, only buy types #1 and #2, for which recycling options are usually available
avoid overpackaged goods
buy from the most local place possible; avoid stuff from other countries, especially from those with really bad human rights records (basically anyplace but Canada, Japan or Europe).
buy from the smallest companies possible (if you've heard of them in advertising, they're probably too big; look on labels to see if they tell you who they're owned by... sometimes they do)
observe every boycott you can (visit www.corporations.org/corplist.html to get started)
buy recycled/reused goods; buy from dollar stores, flea markets and thrift shops for reused stuff
make use of things people throw away (I've obtained some decent furniture, lamps, desks and such by taking home stuff that suburbanites and college students throw out)
make major lifestyle choices that minimize the need to consume; don't have kids; live communally
look at ingredients in foods and materials in products and avoid anything that you find out is unhealthy or produced in bad ways
avoid toxics in products you consume: examples include anti-bacterial (triclosan) soaps, fluoridated water, mercury thermometers, vinyl toys
go vegan! (it goes a long way towards saving the environment, your health and the lives of many animals!) If you don't know where to start, try www.veganoutreach.org and www.pcrm.org
Try to find ways to institutionalize these things (get vegetarian options in your schools, get your local stores to stop carrying mercury thermometers or to start carrying non-fluoridated toothpastes, etc.)
sign onto some of the anti-corporate email lists out there, so you can learn what's up and stay on top of corporate activities. You can find lots of good lists at the Student Environmental Action Coalition (SEAC) website: www.seac.org/seacnet/ and also at the website of the student anti-corporate movement - "180: The Movement for Democracy and Education" - www.corporations.org/democracy/lists.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to the ACTION Center Homepage
Return to the Corporate Accountability Project Homepage
Last modified: 2 December 2002

http://www.corporations.org/solutions/

__________________________________________________ _-

Not exactly the most unbiased source and sites of information

[CD Lee]

RAF - Whats your point???????

You tryin' to jack our thread?

[Ming Yue]

this thread might NEED a pirate. but only after I ask this.....

Sure, 2.5 million years is a lot of mammothburgers.

I read in a few places recently that said that Australopithecus of as much as 5 million years ago was an occasional meat eater... Apparently I need to read more. Or less. Or just stop listening to you people.

pre-garhi, huh? but WHY? What restricted them? Most potential prey being too big and dangerous for very small groups to hunt? Primates we descended from didn't eat entirely plant diets. what made us be completely vegetarian?

[RAF]

CD Lee:

You tryin Jack me? When did this become "our" thread. Its simply is a thread, no one owns it. Actually I don't owe you any **** explanation of what I choose to post.

The sites regarding dioxin and beef come from a much larger source which pushes a very strong political agenda. Whether dioxin is or is not a problem has to be seen in the context of who is interpreting the reasearch or pushing a political agenda. They also have a very strong vegan agenda. I am no apologist for the coroporate world, but bias and distortion of fact cuts both ways.

I don't jack around with anybody. I deal straight-up.

[Ming Yue]

don't get your hemp boxers all in a knot. I think CD was joking with you.

[RAF]

Sorry CD Lee, I should have been much more clearer in the initial post.

[CD Lee]

RAF - Hey!, you gettin' rough with me? You are wrinkling my shirt man.

Just having a little fun. I did start reading your post, and saw a bunch of political stuff, and had trouble focusing on how it realated. Hey, you cussed at me. Well....****. There.

[Serpent]

Dayum, RAF, you are one seriously agressive vegan! What kind of agenda are you trying to push posting all that stuff in a thread about the history of vegetarianism. For example:

make major lifestyle choices that minimize the need to consume; don't have kids; live communally
look at ingredients in foods and materials in products and avoid anything that you find out is unhealthy or produced in bad ways
avoid toxics in products you consume: examples include anti-bacterial (triclosan) soaps, fluoridated water, mercury thermometers, vinyl toys
go vegan! (it goes a long way towards saving the environment, your health and the lives of many animals!) If you don't know where to start, try www.veganoutreach.org and www.pcrm.org

Man, there's all the answers right there!

Can anyone spell f-a-n-a-t-i-c!

[Spark]

Originally posted by ghthomason


That's my point, exactly. When humans started eating meat, our brain sizes increased dramatically. Is it a direct relation? Who knows, but it is surely more than coincidence.

We would still be stupid monkeys if we had not learned how to scavenge meat.

ghthomason
THis is what I'm getting confused with, with regards to this theory. I read your links and most of them went on about how the proteins, fatty acids and calories found in marrow are what was responsible for making our brains bigger. However, all three of those things are found in not just red meat, but other meats and a plethora of vegetables. They would then go on to state something to the effect that "we needed these calories/energy to support our bigger brains and activities ..." However, I have given many examples of societies (and I have a couple more), and some of which that are said to be closest to that of the hunter/gatherers of **** Erectus, and they did not depend on meat as their #1 food source, so perhaps you can imagine why this idea doesn't seem to wash with me.
Do you have any specifics on this theory or ideas on this? Because as i have stated before, I have a hard time believing that meat consumption=brain growth.

[Serpent]

Not quite the answer, but just a small point. I don't think meat ever was or ever should be man's #1 food source. People today eat way too much meat.

However, starting to supplement our diet with meat is what gave man the position on the planet he now holds, for better or worse!