Pak Mei Question

[FIRE HAWK]

Could you tell me what the names of the 8 Hakka styles are that is listed in the book ?

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks mate,

The ykm system is primarily bak mei, we have some sets that Grandmaster Ha made from his CLF hung gar background in his early days. 1 FORM only called ying ching, has tension like hung gar and some moves of clf and bak mei all in one. Basically it has long and short hand moves, lots of circles with some tension and bridge training.

As for our other history not much has been talked about given to the public for some reasons.

regards
FT

[extrajoseph]

Originally posted by FIRE HAWK
Could you tell me what the names of the 8 Hakka styles are that is listed in the book ?

Ngog Ga Gao (Ngog Family Teaching)
Diu Ga Gao (Diu Family Teaching)
Lee Ga Gao (Lee Family Teaching)
Chu Ga Gao (Chu Family Teaching)
Chung Ga Gao (Chung Family Teaching)
Kun Lun Kuen (Kunlun is the largest mountain range in China)
Nam Gee Kuen (Nam Gee is the founder Chan Nam Gee's name)
Lau Fung San Kuen (Lau Fung San is the founder's name, Kuen means fists or forms as in Hung Kuen)

[FIRE HAWK]

What would be the translation of the names of these styles in english ?

[extrajoseph]

FH,

I edited my last post to include English translatios for you.


FT,

Thanks for the explanation, now I know a little more about YKM. There is another piece about HHH from the book you may find interesting.

In 1935, three years before Guangzhou fell to the Japanese, they had a provincial Kung Fu meet and HHH School had this list of demonstrations shown in the program:

Ng Ying Kuen (Five Animals)
Seg Si Sup Ji Kuen (Stone Lion Cross)
Sup Ji Yink Jow Kuen (Eagle Claw Cross)
Darn Do (Single Broadsword)
Sarm Mun Ba Gua (Three Doors Bagua)
Ching Lung Gim (Azure Dragon Sword)
Soong Bang Gwai (Soong Bang Walking Staff)
Sai Mun Ba Gwa (Four Doors Bagua)
Omei Lok Hop Mui Fa Cheung (Plum Blossom Spear)
Hoe Gee Seung Do (Monkey Double Broadsword)

I can recognize at least two CLF forms there (Ng Ying Kuen and Ching Lung Gim), maybe when HHH first set up his school in 1924, he was still teaching a bit of CLF as well as BM.

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks very much your a legend dude!!

Funny, how people can learn something new from someone sitting on the other side of the world on his computer. Some of the forms like the monkey swords, walking cane, ching lung gim have different names or my translation may have been incomplete. I wonder if the double swords are the monkey swords as we just call it sheurng Dao, and the gim i learnt was called bak sim gim. As for the walking cane i heard that HHH was fantastic with his cane.

all the best.
FT

[atari]

Extrajosph mentioned that Chu Gar Gao is popular in the Mui Yuan (Moi Yen in hakka) area. Also fiercest tiger mentioned that Chong Li Chun learnt some SPM. I have heard from some Chu Gar elders from Moi Yen that CLC visited Moi Yen and crossed hands with some of the Chu Gar practitioners. As a result he decided to utilize Chu Gar as part of his own art.

Firehawk,
I think you asked about Chuka from Malaysia and how is it in comparison to my Chu Gar which went to Indonesia from China. Well, my Chu Gar is more similar to SPM of Yip Sui. We do have the Sarm Bo Jin and Sarm Jin Yiu Kiu as the basic form. But then we have also some forms which have the same name as Pak Mei forms like Sarm Mon and Sip Bart Mor. I have seen Sarm Mon performed by Pak Mei people and it has similarities in concepts with the Sarm Mon of my branch of Chu Gar i.e. elbow breaking, finger jabs/bridging with the beggar hand techniques. Note that I only know about this Chuka from Malaysia from Leong's book.

[Yum Cha]

Thanks EJ for the translations. A legend indeed.

I recall hearing from SM that there were some similarities between an old pattern called "Sam Bo Twi" (Sarm Bo Jin?) and Gau Bo Twi. (3 step push and 9 step push).

FT
Interesting to see the Ng Ying Kuen on that list from HHH. This is as yet one of the unexplained patterns. Somehow, I don't think our version if from CLF, what do you think? Have you ever seen the CLF version?

I heard that Yin Ching was named after a famous Master of CLF. That it was for your "vitalities". I'm also told it was Sifu Leung Cheungs "favourite" pattern in his final years, as he felt it improved his health. I have always wondered where the CLF influence came in. The Hand is so different, yet there seems to be a kind "Presence" nevertheless.

Oh yea, cane sounds cool, never seen a cane pattern.

Atari,
Thanks for the Chu Gar Gao connection.

[fiercest tiger]

Hiya,

The ng ying form of YKM or Bak mei isnt the CLF one, our one is diffferent to the ng ying form i learnt from guangzhou in 1996, very different i must say.

Ying ching was sifu's favourite and told me a story in hongkong when a truck blew exhaust in his face and he felt sick and said that ying ching expels toxins and you must sweat to release it all. He said he did ying ching 3 times and felt much better....lol like Dr's saying a apple a day!! This form was named after CLF teacher , maybe HHH's teacher i dont know.I think it also means green swallow or something!?

Anyways chat later
FT

[extrajoseph]

The wall chart in King Mui CLF museum said HHH learned CLF from his father Ha Seng whose teacher learned from Chan Koon Pak.

Ying Ching (Green Swallow) was one of the 108 Heroes from the popular fiction "The Water Margin Classics" (Sui Wu Jun). He was well known for speed and endurance.

[Yum Cha]

Thanks EJ.

[fiercest tiger]

LOL, i forgot about that, i have a full history here but didnt bother to go through it. I was told it was a relo!

anyway was the hero guy a CLF master and was the CLF master that taught HHH father any good etc.

whats the water margin classics?

FT

[extrajoseph]

Ha Seng could have been a relative (my note said Ha Seng only, I must have thought otherwise), he studied with Wong Fuk-Wing, a disciple of Chan Koon-Pak. Wong was a great teacher, he had some famous students including Fong Yuk-Shu (CLF Chan Hon-Hung's sifu and Fong also studied with Chan Koon Pak and Yuan Hai as well) and Lum Yum-Tong of Mok Ga fame.

The Water Margin Classic was a great martial arts novel from early Ming Dynasty, it had fantastic fights scenes, unbelievable characters and the theme of rebels v the status quote, all Chinese kids in the olden days grew up with comic strips from its stories and that was long before Bruce Lee! I still got 8 of these little comic books left from 1960! We all wanted to study martial arts so we too can become like one of the 108 rebel heroes and run away to the Leung Shan Marshes to join the revolution!

It was written 100s of years before CLF came onto the scene (in the early 1300s) so Ying Ching could not have been a CLF master. In the novel he was famous for killing a nasty villian in an open fight on stage, I still remember, it was called Ying Ching Da Lu Toi. I think Soong Bang was also another character from the same novel.

[EAZ]

Originally posted by Yum Cha
Thanks EJ for the translations. A legend indeed.

I recall hearing from SM that there were some similarities between an old pattern called "Sam Bo Twi" (Sarm Bo Jin?) and Gau Bo Twi. (3 step push and 9 step push).

This is what I have always been taught by my sifu concerning the origins of 9 step push. Does anyone have any more to add to this?

(Thanks for all the great contributions by all, very interesting)

EAZ

[atari]

Sarm Bo Tui is in fact very similar or the same as Jik Bo, its based on the core techniques of finger jab, punch and palm pushing together with bridging movements. So I would tend to say that the Sarm Bo Tui is the predecessor of PM's Gau Bo Tui and Lung Ying's Sup Luk Dung. This finger jab and punch is in fact the bread and butter of of certain hakka arts not unlike the jab and cross of boxers.

Whereas Sarm Bo Jin is developed from or along the same lines as the many types of Fujian Sarm Jien forms such as five ancestor's, white crane, tiger, and even karate.