OT: Question for US peeps.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by pvwingchun
eulerfan
OK so you understand where I am coming from.

IMO there is bias in everything and everyone, you can't avoid it. There is not necessarily bias in the number but in how it is gathered, interpretted and presented. For example define homicide, and does the person or persons who determined it was a homicide, define it the same.

The person who determined it homicide is the person who checked, 'homicide' on the death certificate and that's where they got the information. So, they go by that person's definition. The legal definition. However, they do state that they exclude 'justifiable' homicide.

This database contains information from death certificates filed in state vital-statistics offices and includes causes of death reported by attending physicians, medical examiners, and coroners.

Homicide - injuries inflicted by another person with intent to injure or kill, by any means. Excludes injuries due to legal intervention and operations of war. Justifiable homicide is not identified in WISQARS.

That's from the CDC. They define their terms, tell you how they gathered the data and allow you to present it to yourself in whatever manner you see fit. The option to only see the homicides is independant of the cause of death. You can't really see which homicides were commited with illegally obtained fire or water in which to drown somebody, can you?

You claimed that you didn't trust the CDC stats because bias was possible. You also say that there is bias in everything and everyone. So, you don't trust anything or anyone?

Just admit it. You can trust the CDC stats.

In as much as you can trust anything.

[StarBoy]

Once again I disagree and we are going to disagree on this, true it is a raw number but there are numbers behind these numbers that were used to arrive at this number. Do you understand where I am coming from

Yes, and I am trying to correct you. For the most part, the CDC, UCR, and US Census (and therefore the DOL) don't compute anyderived statistics. They provide the raw data for other agencies and organizations to compute derived statistics. Honestly, the data does not get any more accurate and unbiased than that.

They don't understand that a question was framed in a certain manner to get the desired result.

What does other people's ignorance have to do with the issue?

Anything that alters a persons perception of reality alters how they are effected by it, including gunshots. I realize that balanc is compromised but if you don't feel it it has no effect on you.

I have to correct you again. Unless you are on PCP you will feel it, and it will hurt, a lot. The only exception to pain tolerance would be a smackhead, but a strung out smackhead under the influence doesn't exhibit the same violent and erratic behaviors that someone under the influence of PCP would. Ergo, stopping power remains the same. Which is another innaccuracy in your assertions. You're not differentiating between stopping power and subjective self-assessment of injury and pain. Though in the end (barring a perp on the effects of PCP) it's irrelevant. I've personally studied this during undergrad and have plenty of friends who are police officers that would say the same thing.

You never answered me on one question. What kind of education do you have that would lead you to these false perceptions?

[pvwingchun]

Yes, and I am trying to correct you. For the most part, the CDC, UCR, and US Census (and therefore the DOL) don't compute anyderived statistics. They provide the raw data for other agencies and organizations to compute derived statistics. Honestly, the data does not get any more accurate and unbiased than that.

We disagree on this bottom line. I know what I have learned and you now what you have learned. That is what makes America great, a diversity of opinions and how we view things.

What does other people's ignorance have to do with the issue?

Everything. That is the point.

I've personally studied this during undergrad and have plenty of friends who are police officers that would say the same thing.

Ditto plus a wife and mother who have spent plenty of time in ER's, once again you have learned what you have learned and I have learned what I have learned. You have one perception and I have another. Subjective self-assessment of injury and pain effects stopping power according to everything I have learned, read and observed.

Anyway good debate I am off to a NASCAR weekend.

[StarBoy]

We disagree on this bottom line. I know what I have learned and you now what you have learned. That is what makes America great, a diversity of opinions and how we view things.

I think there's a big difference between having an opinion and being misinformed. Besides, you've never indicated where you actually "learned" any of this.