Kung Fu fight footage

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not looking for footage that looks like a Jakie Chan flick in the ring. I am looking for solid CMA principals. Like WD said, CMA has very dstinct power generation methods. The footwork is distinct. I want to see those qualities in the fighter. It has nothing to do with the hollywood Kung Fu example.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
The problem is, everytime I get someone who is worthy, all they want to do is show me forms or application demo's. NEVER actualy fight footage.

Doesn't that tell you something?

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Would LennoX Lewis suddenly change sports to wrestling, just because he's a good athlete? Marvin is making a career with kickboxing and will be wise to continue on that path. He has a future in K-1 and k-1 S-cup, muay thai fights, possible pro sanda matches.

Why start on the bottom of another totem pole when you're already doing great on your own?

Please understand; I wasn't denigrating Marvin at all. I completely agree that it makes perfect sense for him to stick to San Da and kickboxing, if that's what he wants to do; I certainly don't think he needs to prove anything by competing NHB. I was just expressing the fact that I, personally, would like to see him compete NHB, because I'd be very interested to see San Shou plus groundfighting in that format, and Perry seems to be among the top folks when it comes to San Shou. I'm disappointed to hear that he has no plans to do so, because it's something I'd love to watch, but I certainly don't think any less of him for it.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
There's differences. But there mostly in regards to how power is delivered. If you look closely at some video. You CAN see it.

That video is a DEMONSTRATION. It's not even close to real fighting. There's a reason you can't find footage of real fighting looking like what you saw in that video.

[Oso]

RD, now see what you've started???

Go stand in a horse stance in the corner and recite

"All I wanted was a video
just one video."

a thousand times.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL @ OSO!!

[Shooter]

Knifefighter, fair enough. I generally agree with what you're saying, but....

The main difference between what we do and what MMA fighters are doing is based on 5 Steps. Without 5 Steps and their positional strategies, a Tai Chi player has very little functional footwork for applied 8 Gates as they (8 Gates) are classically trained...especially against an intelligent, well trained MMA fighter. They would have to adopt the same types of footwork MMAers use. Very few TCC players realize that 5 STeps are an equal part of the fighting method. They're as deep a body of study as peng, 8 Gates, ting, fa-jin, chan-ssu-chin, blah blah blah...

There's only one way to learn 5 Steps...hard contact and properly structured sparring...2 things which are seriously lacking in most all TCC schools. I only know of 3 schools ( and 2 non-commercial teachers) where this is a staple of their training.

As I've yet to see any in-depth discussions of 5 Steps here, or anywhere else, I doubt you'll see many Tai Chi dudes using classical Tai Chi in MMA...I doubt you'll see much of it in any type of full-on competition other than sub-wrestling. They're going to have the same footwork as boxers, kickboxers, MMAers, and wrestlers as per their chosen sportive training. I've seen the people I've trained use proper 8 Gates from time to time in MMA because 5 Steps is all they're taught.

Since he's so vastly knowlegdeable, maybe Larry can put his popcorn down for a minute and explain what I'm talking about

[Oso]

well, it's a silly ****ing argument.

what difference does it really make if anyone else thinks you can
kick ass or not?

It's like a bunch of high school boys trying to peek at each other
in the shower to see who's got the biggest ****.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Golden Arms
Clips..Nuff said..I accidentally erased my entire post. Here is what it said in summary:

View clips below then tell me that any of you MOUTHBOXERS would dare set foot in front of this guy when he fought200+ opponents over 3 days. Its TMA, his name is Mas Oyama, and read some of his history, including the streetfight he and 1 other guy got in against 10 guys in a motorcycle gang, and say he didnt know his stuff. The dude has killed bulls with his bare hands, you want to catch a hit from him?

Fight clips....especially Oyama sparring 4.

That's the type of stuff I'm laways talking about. Who cares what Oyama could do? He was an awesome martial artist, proved it and got respect for it. What does that do for you? NOTHING. I know you're not trying to validate yourself with that post, but all too often people say "grandmaster so and so from my lineage was undefeated and could shoot chi blasts" That's fine, but says nothing about you or your school, unless you are training directly under him. Royce did excellent in both bjj and mma, but does that say anything about me? Not at all.

[Royal Dragon]

It's not WHETHER we can kick ass, it's HOW. See, I want video clips that show good Ass kicking in the Kung Fu way, NOT the Kick Boxer way.

Is that so much to ask?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by BrentCarey


That is a pretty common reasoning error made by people with limited experience. (Not saying you necessarily lack experience, just that it is a common mistake.) When you first learn a technique, do you practice it full-speed from the beginning? No, you practice it slowly at first so you can see what is supposed to be happening. Gradually, as you build up an understanding, you increase the speed to combat speed. As you speed up, and your opponent speeds up and resists, you find that you have to modify the technique slightly, but the underlying principles remain the same.

When you practice "big and bold", this is an exercise - a means to an end. When you move past this, your techiques are faster, deeper, more powerful, and more effective. To use an analogy, it is somewhat like running 5-10 miles a day to improve your 100-yard dash.

yohu start out slow, but can be doing them fulol speed by the end of the workout in many cases. If you are learning a long form, then no, but keeping with the grappling example where you are working wingle technique forms, you can have them full speed after one class. Of course, you must continually drill it before it's second nature, but you drill it with speed.


However, these students were not proficient in kung fu - they just knew how to do a few techniques well and were encouraged to express a certain mindset. Yes, I can train someone to defend themselves fairly well in 6 months, but they would not progress very far because the foundation would not be established.

I find my instruction being a compromise between establishing a long-term plan with a firm foundation, and giving students techniques and principles that are immediately useful. For the first couple of years, I spend a fair amount of effort just reminding students that while they may "think" they have it down, they still cannot pull it off in the real world. This prevents people from becoming complacent with their training. The only trick then is illustrating how all of this foundation work will pay off in the long run. That typically involves walking a fine line. However, students always understand after the fact.

gotcha.

I thought we were holding style vs style posts. Who said anything about grappling? I am not claiming KF superiority in any of the aforementioned traits. I am just saying that these traits enter into the equation for many people. Please, let's avoid aesthetical comparisons. My point with reference to aesthetics was simply that the look and feel of KF attracts many practitioners.

it's not style vs. style. I'm relating what you say to grappling because it's what I do.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


That video is a DEMONSTRATION. It's not even close to real fighting. There's a reason you can't find footage of real fighting looking like what you saw in that video.

I'm not talking about that. Watch Max Chen fight. You should be able to find footage somewhere. Watch him real close. Watch his counterfighting. It's a little different, a little unique. That's where I see Taichi in fighting. That's the main thing I picked up from it. Your defense becomes extremely tight.

It's small differences like in how a boxer and Thai boxer hold theor guards different.

But it still looks like fighting and not some Shaw Brothers flick. And all fighting is ugly, even a boxer is ugly in MMA when a lot of the rules come off.

[Oso]

well, I look at it this way.

I do my thing in my town and did my thing in my sifu's school.
And occasionally visited another school and did my thing.
I never got dissed about my abilities. That's good enough for
me. I got riled up about this crap a couple months ago (mainly
cuz ST00 is good at riling people up ) and then realized that
while I want respect for what I do, it really doesn't matter what
a bunch of people on a web forum think about what I do. Not
dissing anyone in particular, some of you are really nice guys. And,
even though many of the threads here are thought provoking
and it is certainly a great place to meet a lot of different ma folks
you guys mean very little to my personal ma practice.

This place could be a lot better than it is and maybe really mean
something for the future of martial arts in general if the ego's
would be left at home.

funny, from day one of my martial career I have been taught that
ego was the first thing that needed to go to become a great
martial artist.


but, there I go again, being all idealistic. So, back to your
argument....................

[Brad]

See, I want video clips that show good Ass kicking in the Kung Fu way, NOT the Kick Boxer way.

Is that so much to ask?

Maybe the "kickboxer way" just works better overall in a sport format?

[apeters28]

Oso,

that was a great reply, and a great post. I couldn't agree more, and you were able to say it without being mean or sounding bitter. I like when people on here post legitimate things but some people have way too much time on their handsand they use it to post thousands of things on here just ripping other people, which means they probably aren't really training all that much , especially not enough to tell me my style isn't effective or to pass judgement on anyone for that matter.

Just a thought...