Shaolin-Do Or American Kempo?

[Johnny Hot Shot]

I have been reading alot about how Shaolin-do is not "really kung fu" or that it is not a valid martial art somehow? It appears to me that the largest school of this so called Shaolin do is USSD. A very large franchise of MA schools primarily on the east and west coast of the US. After hours of reaserch I have come to a conclusion about USSD and their so called Shaolin do style. It's not shaolin Kung fu, its American Kempo. The founder Nick Cerio had studied under George Pesare. And later on in his martial arts career studied under Ed Parker (American Kempo). Now it is my belief that since the school has become a franchise and motivated more by the quest for the almighty green back it has tryed to capitalize on the popularity of the Shaolin name. So my conclusion is that USSD and their Shaolin do is nothing more than a money making scheme. If you are a student of USSD and can dicredit my allegations please try. Any other Martial artists Please add any comments or facts as I am sure mine have holes in them. Are USSD students proud of their school? Speak up. :confused:

[Radhnoti]

USSD and Shaolin-Do are two seperate schools.
Hope this helps. :)

-Radhnoti

[Johnny Hot Shot]

USSD instructors are saying that their style is Shaolin-do or Shaolin kenpo. Why do none of the USSD students defend their school? Every form I have read concerning USSD has been negative no one ever says that it is a good school the students are excellent Martial artist or that the instructors are really good. I'm sure that there must be some USSD students reading these posts, are they ashamed? Do they not know about their style's history other than what some graduate from the USSD academy has told them? [(USSD pumps out BB "Instructors" in 2 years)] Do they not have enough knowledge to defend their school from all of the negative press? :o

[Abstract]

man-I went to USSD for awhile. They are a different school than 'shaolin do' people-but, I feel they are doing the same thing-using the shaolin name to get more students who want to learn 'kung fu' & can't really tell the difference. They did teach what they called Kung Fu at the one I attended, but i've seen people practice REAL kung fu at various places & finally my conscience wouldn't let me go there any longer. I found a Wing Chun kwoon completely by luck & signed up, and promptly left USSd. The kempo i learned wasn't 'shaolin' as they like to say...nothin' Chinese about it---just plain ol' American Kempo. If that's what someone wants-cool. that was ok..BUT they shouldn't deceive themselves into thinking they're learning TRUE shaolin kung fu in any way shape or form. I have friends both american /chinese & japanese(like that matters but...) who've studied traditional CMA & traditional Japanese Karate, we ALL agree-USSD/shaolin-do---are McDojos. And to be honest, at two of my belt rank tests, during a reaction drill where we were supposed to use a technique(s) on multiple attackers, one guy DUCKED AND COVERED HIS HEAD!!!! and what's more disconcerting--they GAVE him the next level belt!!! I couldn't take that...this cat now has a SERIOUS false sense of security & is gonna get pounced if he tries to defend himself...sad sad..and what's worse is that he truly said this "now i REALLY know how to fight.."
:rolleyes: (i am not making that up-honest)AND.....
no dis to anybody who goes there. If that's your only option...but I say look alittle harder..i did & got lucky. u never know. :D

[This message was edited by Abstract on 04-26-01 at 05:50 PM.]

[Unknown]

hmm...I've never actually seen USSD or Shaolin-Do, I've only read what people say about it here. Before I came here I thought about training in it but now I'm not so sure. Everybody here talks so bad about it, but I've never actually seen any negative articles or anything about it on the internet yet. If someone can tell me some sites where I can read negative articles about Shaolin-Do I'd appreciate it.

[UberShaman]

Do a search on deja-news or any other newsgroup search engine and you'll have plenty to read on the subject,

[J]

Here's some other kung fu schools to visit:

Bak Fu Pai - www.bakfupai.com, southern short hands system. Miramar, La Jolla, Mira Mesa area

Choy Li Fut - White Dragon schools, check phone book. They're all over (5 or 6 schools in SD)

Choy Li Fut - Frank Primicias, Poway and Escondido

Hsing Yi - www.hsing-i.com, Mike Patterson in La Mesa

7 Star Mantis - Mike Desargo in La Mesa

S. Dragon and Liu He Ba Fa - Steve Martin in La Mesa, there's a webpage Sojourner's something


I personally recommend Bak Fu Pai. If you visit, tell them that I sent you.

Good luck.

[Ground Dragon]

I study Chung Yen Shaolin under Hiang The', brother to Sin The' who is the head of the shaolin do schools. We share some of the same material as shaolin do, however, if I was in a different city and had to choose between a shaolin do school and something else, I would choose something else.
Check out the very long thread on shaolin do in this forum. There is some good information in there.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

Yes I have read through this thread several times. I started this thread really to call out any practicing USSD students to try and defentd their Honor as well as for any X USSD students to voice their opinions and inside knowledge. :)

[Radhnoti]

No offense Grounddragon, but from the website I have access to, written by a second black in your system, Chung Yen Shaolin and Shaolin-Do have exactly the same material. Just different historical outlooks...both schools ignore the fact that the other brother exists as far as I can tell. Why would you suggest something other than what is basically the style you're studying? At least for all practical purposes...?
:confused:

-Radhnoti

[Ground Dragon]

You are right in one aspect, Sin The' does not publicly acknowledge his brother's existence. Nor does he acknowledge that Ie Chang Ming was his grandfather. In fact in Sin The's book there is a picture of a painting done of Ie Chang Ming with Master Hiang as a young boy standing at his side, except they cut off Master Hiang's head in the photo.
On that website you mentioned at one time, Sin The' was even mentioned, it even went into some detail if I remember correctly. That isn't the case now. Master Hiang wants his own identity apart from his brother and wants his own style's identity.
As far as the material, some is the same, it could even be said a lot. On the other hand a lot is different. We have some internal sets, a lot of bird, dragon, hook sword and double dagger sets that they don't have. Master Hiang teaches 18 tai peng sets, Sin The' teaches one. On the other hand, Sin The' has been teaching out a lot of seven star praying mantis lately, snake pa kua , a series of forms for the 8 drunken immortals, among other things, that Master Hiang doesn't teach.
And our historical accounts are almost completely different. :cool:

[This message was edited by Ground Dragon on 04-27-01 at 03:37 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ground Dragon on 04-27-01 at 03:43 PM.]

[SanHeChuan]

what is the URL to hiangs site

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

[Radhnoti]

First off, Ubershaman thanks for a brilliant idea. I've found a WEALTH of info in deja news...maybe enough to sway my opinion (slightly, about certain claims) if the guy can send me the documents he claims to have. (He's a fellow Chung Yen Shaolin student GD.)
SanHeChuan, the only site I've been able to find is a student's site the address is:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/3588/
GroundDragon, I believe that all the forms this fellow speaks of learning to become a second black is within the Shaolin-Do system as well. I admit to SOME uncertainty since I don't have the site and the book in front of me to check, but I'm fairly certain this is so. My point was/is how can you condemn a style that is almost identical to the one you study now? Just the bad blood between the brothers? I'm honestly not trying to start an arguement here, just curious as to how you think. ;)

-Radhnoti

[Unknown]

sway your opinion of what claims?

[Radhnoti]

I'll let you know if I get the documents. ;)

-Radhnoti