Shaolin-Do Or American Kempo?

[dragon797]

The differences between the two groups is not one of material (although there are major differences in the way much of the material is taught) but in how one side has exaggerated or distorted HOW MUCH material they have learned and HOW the material was learned.

I am personally amazed at all of this because the real story should be more than enough. Why did it need to be embellished in the first place? The exaggerations have destroyed Sin's credibility in the CMA community and Hiang's group suffers as a result because most people do not know the difference.

[Radhnoti]

...And the people who have an idea of the differences are quick to point out that your Grandmaster was a major part of Shaolin-Do for a good, long while. And in all probability the majority of your style's masters were Shaolin-Do blackbelts when they left...and it's unlikely they "relearned" things the way you say Chung Yen Shaolin is taught now. ;)
Look, I understand that your Grandmaster wants to establish his own identity...as well as the identity of his art...but you're throwing rocks from a glass house. You can't build UP your Grandmaster by tearing the person he once acknowledged as his "boss" down.
As an aside, I'm starting to believe that the "irrefutable proof" I'm waiting on does not exist. If it does, in the interests of openmindedness (yes, yes...I know, that one MAY be too good for anyone to pass up...but I think I'm openminded :D ) I'll post the documents on this forum. I've lost faith in the guy...but he may still surprise me.

-Radhnoti

[reemul]

Shaolin Do is not Shaolin kungfu, give it up.

[Radhnoti]

:rolleyes:
Thanks for the constructive post there big guy.

-Radhnoti

[BeiKongHui]

Constructive or not it's the truth.

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[dragon797]

Evidence that some of the material taught by Hiang is different from the way it is taught by Sin's group was seen in a video tape made of Sin's recent tournament in Lexington. One of Hiang's senior students who learned material from both men begining in the 70's saw several forms being performed on the tape and said that many were being done quite differently than the way he originally learned them and the way his group continues to practice them now.

Radhnoti, this is not a flame as Hiang's student made no criticism of how well the forms were done in terms of power, stances, spirit, etc, JUST that the movements were different. He actually complimented many things he saw.

[Psirus]

I saw some "Shaolin-do" video clips in teh kung fu forum...wow, it was FAKE in terms of shaolin kung fu...gah, very fake, heh. It is NOT kung fu.

- Psirus

[The Willow Sword]

Well you are right,,Shaolin-DO is NOT shaolin kung-fu. it is SHAOLIN-Do kung fu. its origins are from the shaolin temple in fujian. its grandmasters have handed down the teachings three generations. Grandmaster Sin The' holds the lineage. He has as ,well as the school, modernized the shaolin ways. there are karate like elements to the system. it is not a school of silk pajamas or robes and shaved heads and incense in the hallway. it is a simple school that has continued to exist for years as has many other schools in this country. the school does not concern itself with ego posturing and trashing of other ways. the school uses belts and a karate ranking system(the modernized aspects).
the school has MANY students. if it were a "McDojo" you would see one in EVERY TOWN IN AMERICA. but you dont. despite the claims against the school and its grandmaster, people have come and gone just like with any other school in America. i have heard it all for years about this school and i hope that this objective yet supportive opinion finally shuts up the trolls and the students can continue to discuss subjects in this forum with out the scrutiny of others who DO NOT RESPECT. yes there will be negative replies to this,,ive heard them all. save your typing skills. unless you have something positive and respectful to write.
many respects,,,the willow sword

[sk girl]

I have been reading alot about how Shaolin-do is not "really kung fu" or that it is not a valid martial art somehow? It appears to me that the largest school of this so called Shaolin do is USSD. A very large franchise of MA schools primarily on the east and west coast of the US. After hours of reaserch I have come to a conclusion about USSD and their so called Shaolin do style. It's not shaolin Kung fu, its American Kempo. The founder Nick Cerio had studied under George Pesare. And later on in his martial arts career studied under Ed Parker (American Kempo). Now it is my belief that since the school has become a franchise and motivated more by the quest for the almighty green back it has tryed to capitalize on the popularity of the Shaolin name. So my conclusion is that USSD and their Shaolin do is nothing more than a money making scheme. If you are a student of USSD and can dicredit my allegations please try. Any other Martial artists Please add any comments or facts as I am sure mine have holes in them. Are USSD students proud of their school? Speak up.

Yes Charles Mattera is the con man of the martial arts IMHO.

The only kung fu you will learn at Mattera's / Villari kempo is how to take your money form and give to some fat ussd master.

[MasterKiller]

Well you are right,,Shaolin-DO is NOT shaolin kung-fu. it is SHAOLIN-Do kung fu. its origins are from the shaolin temple in fujian. its grandmasters have handed down the teachings three generations. Grandmaster Sin The' holds the lineage. He has as ,well as the school, modernized the shaolin ways. there are karate like elements to the system. it is not a school of silk pajamas or robes and shaved heads and incense in the hallway. it is a simple school that has continued to exist for years as has many other schools in this country. the school does not concern itself with ego posturing and trashing of other ways. the school uses belts and a karate ranking system(the modernized aspects).
the school has MANY students. if it were a "McDojo" you would see one in EVERY TOWN IN AMERICA. but you dont. despite the claims against the school and its grandmaster, people have come and gone just like with any other school in America. i have heard it all for years about this school and i hope that this objective yet supportive opinion finally shuts up the trolls and the students can continue to discuss subjects in this forum with out the scrutiny of others who DO NOT RESPECT. yes there will be negative replies to this,,ive heard them all. save your typing skills. unless you have something positive and respectful to write.
many respects,,,the willow sword

bwahahahah

[Dim Wit Mak]

Personally, I make it a point to not criticize schools, systems or instructors. If someone were attacking a school I liked on an internet forum, I would not get in a p _ _ _ _ _ g contest because, in case you haven't noticed, no one ever wins in the war of words. Do a Shou Shu or Shaolin Do search if you don't believe me. Now, if someone were to enter the kwoon with a physical challenge, that would be a different matter.

I will say this. If someone can find a good Bak Fu Pai or Choy Li Fut school, he need not look any further for a good system to study. I have heard very good things about the Bak Fu Pai instruction in San Diego.

When I see people like Bak Fu Pai's Doo Wai criticized, I take it with a grain of salt. People should study what they want and not take the negative things they hear to heart. Martial arts are not "one size fits all".

[TenTigers]

why arent there any records of Sin The's art in Fukien? Of all the styles that came from Fukien Siu-Lum, how come nobody but you guys and your Vietnamese teachers have the only connection to the hairy guy? Nobody in ANY Fukien Siu-Lum art ever heard of him. Please explain this. Or simply admit that Sin The, is from Vietnam, and never learned Siu-Lum from anyone connected with Fukien Siu-Lum Ji. BTW- there aren't any actual proven records that Fukien Siu-Lum Ji even existed.

[MasterKiller]

why arent there any records of Sin The's art in Fukien? Of all the styles that came from Fukien Siu-Lum, how come nobody but you guys and your Vietnamese teachers have the only connection to the hairy guy? Nobody in ANY Fukien Siu-Lum art ever heard of him. Please explain this. Or simply admit that Sin The, is from Vietnam, and never learned Siu-Lum from anyone connected with Fukien Siu-Lum Ji. BTW- there aren't any actual proven records that Fukien Siu-Lum Ji even existed.

Sin is from Indonesia....

[Mega-Foot]

Wrong. Everyone knows sin comes from Eden.

[Judge Pen]

Who dug up these bones? That was a blast from the past.