A tribute to Wei Hsiaotang

[WanderingMonk]

Hi Tainan Mantis,

I look long and hard and I can't find the video section for the web site. Please pass along the url to the video section.

thanks.

wm

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi WM,
Go to
-site developers
-Kevin Brazie
There are clips of me there, but they are the same I have posted here.

BTW, That pic is in Mantis108's shop.

Oh, Wait! You mean vid of GM Wei?

Ok, go to
-about babu
-8 moving steps
-clip a step for vid.
But not all steps have video.

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Hi WM,
Oh, Wait! You mean vid of GM Wei?

Ok, go to
-about babu
-8 moving steps
-clip a step for vid.
But not all steps have video.

Hi Tainan Mantis,

Thanks, I was looking for video clips for the 8 steps website. I plan to posted the site address to a hong kong kung fu board. you guys wouldn't mind the extra bandwidth usage, right?

I am also going to post the video page since many of them don't read English. May be you guys could make a Chinese version of 8 step site for the English impaired audience.

wm

[Nick8stepPM]

Originally posted by RAF
Tainan Mantis:

Either journal/magazine or better yet both. I only suggested JAMA because of the technical nature and translations of your material. We've wanted for a long time to submit something to Gene's magazine and hope to do so in the future (time seems to be the key element).

Its good to see 8 Step praying manits curriculum. A well-structured 8 Step praying mantis program will rival anything you find in Karate and/or Taekwando plus, if you are lucky, you can get an authentic version of the Wu style taiji. 8 step praying mantis is a system just begging to be hatched in the United States.

8 step preying mantis is all over the states already, anyone who knows the current Grandmaster Shyun Kwong Long(James Sun) would know this. Link to the site is right here 8 step schools

[bung bo]

great site about GM Wei. i really like old stories about gong fu masters. would like to learn more about him.

[Tainan Mantis]

I recently received an email from one of our KFO Mantis brothers.
He included a partial translation from a book from China about Mimen Mantis.

It appears that this information was taken from GM Wei's very well known Mantis book.
This would mean that it is not Mimen Mantis.
This section of GM Wei's book talks about the 7 Hand methods of his style.
It is written in a similar style to WHF's 5 Hand Methods. Although the methods differ.

"The hand methods of Mantis are many.
Our style starts with seven hands"

Here, he is not refering to the 8 Step form called 7 Hands.

"The seven hands are:
1. Three Climbing Hands-Pa San Shou.
2. Closing the Attacking Hand-Bi Ji Shou.
3. Knife Hand-Po Dao Shou.
4. Three Plucking Hands-Tsai San Shou.
5. Hook Drag Hands- Go Lou Shou.
6. Continuous Folding Hands-Die Lien Shou.
7. Eagle Sparrow Hands-Ying Chue Shou..."

For those 8 Step practitioners in the states is this how you translate GM Wei's 7 Hands?

[B.Tunks]

This book also steals heavily from my Shiye; Li Zhanyuan's book which was published in the early 80's. There is a few good sections on applications though.
B.T

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
I recently received an email from one of our KFO Mantis brothers.
He included a partial translation from a book from China about Mimen Mantis.

It appears that this information was taken from GM Wei's very well known Mantis book.
This would mean that it is not Mimen Mantis.
This section of GM Wei's book talks about the 7 Hand methods of his style.
It is written in a similar style to WHF's 5 Hand Methods. Although the methods differ.

"The hand methods of Mantis are many.
Our style starts with seven hands"

Here, he is not refering to the 8 Step form called 7 Hands.

"The seven hands are:
1. Three Climbing Hands-Pa San Shou.
2. Closing the Attacking Hand-Bi Ji Shou.
3. Knife Hand-Po Dao Shou.
4. Three Plucking Hands-Tsai San Shou.
5. Hook Drag Hands- Go Lou Shou.
6. Continuous Folding Hands-Die Lien Shou.
7. Eagle Sparrow Hands-Ying Chue Shou..."

For those 8 Step practitioners in the states is this how you translate GM Wei's 7 Hands?

#3. Po = broken throgh. Dao = knife. Shou = hand.

All these hands tech. existed throughout the forms in 8 step. But I don't know if you are talking about the 7 hands as the first solo boxing form or as foundational striking drills.

[Nick8stepPM]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
I recently received an email from one of our KFO Mantis brothers.
He included a partial translation from a book from China about Mimen Mantis.

It appears that this information was taken from GM Wei's very well known Mantis book.
This would mean that it is not Mimen Mantis.
This section of GM Wei's book talks about the 7 Hand methods of his style.
It is written in a similar style to WHF's 5 Hand Methods. Although the methods differ.

"The hand methods of Mantis are many.
Our style starts with seven hands"

Here, he is not refering to the 8 Step form called 7 Hands.

"The seven hands are:
1. Three Climbing Hands-Pa San Shou.
2. Closing the Attacking Hand-Bi Ji Shou.
3. Knife Hand-Po Dao Shou.
4. Three Plucking Hands-Tsai San Shou.
5. Hook Drag Hands- Go Lou Shou.
6. Continuous Folding Hands-Die Lien Shou.
7. Eagle Sparrow Hands-Ying Chue Shou..."

For those 8 Step practitioners in the states is this how you translate GM Wei's 7 Hands?

Well from what i know those are in our 8 hands form, with Hawk Hands starting it off, but yeah thats all i really can tell you.

[TRAVIS WHITMAN]

James shyun curriculum:

8 hands techniques:
1. Hawk hands = Ying chuei shou
2. Chopping hands = poa dao shou
3. Sickle hands = tzan yao shou
4. Double pull hands = shuang luh shou
5. Grinding wheel hands = mouh pan shou
6. Climbing hands = pah san shou
7. Protect hands = bi ji shou
8. Mantis striking hands = gou lou shou

These are pretty much the same tech.s everyone else knows about 8 step, we (Shun style) just approach teaching them differently. In addition to these we also have 40 more tech.s, -stances, fists, blocks, ect just in the first levelbecausemostof our students have little or no martial arts background and those that do usually have little or no mantis background. I belive tianan mantis pointed out that he uses an eagle claw form to get the basic language of mantis across to students, this is our approach to the same goal. We teach kicks and throws and chin na the same way, a lot more tech.s and information to ground students in basics that they generally don't have. Mantis practioners with some expereince don't really need to know all these tech.s, they should already have a grasp on chinese martial arts and mantis concepts.

I beleve Andy Miles wrote a good article on 8 step hands(?) some time back in one of the martial arts rags.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi Travis,
Thanks for the info.
Nice to know that what you learn is close to what is in Wei Hsiaotang's book.

He listed 7 and you have 8.
I think it is your sickle hands.
Looking at what you wrote in Chinese it appears to be what I call waist chop.

[TRAVIS WHITMAN]

Sickle hands is well known throughout mantis, in one of Profatiylov (spell?) articles, it is shown as an application in one of the pictures. I have also seen it in 7 star once or twice. Many of the concepts that are in Master Wei's books are only introductions to each portion of 8 step. Some are hands, some are throws/throwing exercises, some lead to chin na. There are several topics covered, but most are not in that much detail. I teach 48 hand tech.s but some are variations on the same idea. The endless debate -are there a few techs and many variations or are there many different tech.s? Tainan you have access to more manuals than I do, are there references to studying other basic systems first to learn the 'language of fighting' and then progressing to mantis systems to learn more refined combat tech.s?

[PaulLin]

The names of movements are very important. They express a metaphor or imporatnat focus point of the movements.

There are some mistakes in the translations form some of the names of the moves that listed by Travis. They clearly showed the person who translate them has no knowledge of the true meaning of these moves.

I will not give out free bees, it is the same case that the outsiders will translate the "small waterwheel" into "tombling chariot". Don't pretent that didn't matter, it lost the meaning of the movement and will make the practioner train incorrectly.

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Hi Travis,
Thanks for the info.
Nice to know that what you learn is close to what is in Wei Hsiaotang's book.

He listed 7 and you have 8.
I think it is your sickle hands.
Looking at what you wrote in Chinese it appears to be what I call waist chop.

Waist chop is correct translation. Sickle has nothing to do with this move. Sickle, full name is "Old Farmer Cutting Rice", it is a throwing move of 8 step.

[TRAVIS WHITMAN]

I want to sincerely thank Paul Lin for reminding me why I don't generally post on these discussion boards. I also don't give out freebees, however, public information is another matter especially for techniques found in every art in every country. Those mantis practioners with sincere hearts know how to contact me, the rest can just........