shaolin staff?

[Laughing Cow]

Didn't chinese staff fighting develop from the spear??

Either way I think you should be familiar with different grips and the possible combinations/attacks.

[joedoe]

I am not sure about that. I would make sense to me that it would have been the other way around as the staff is a simpler weapon. But who knows?

[dezhen2001]

LC: i think some staff techniques did... the longer poles certainly have that influence... but the "eyebrow high" pole is not so similar. Im sure you have seen the Chen spear

dawood

[Laughing Cow]

Dawood.

Thanks, yeah I have seen the Chen spear.

BTW, still waiting for my Sifu to demo the other stuff he hasn't shown us yet. Here is what I know he knows of our weapons.

1.) single straight sword (dan jian)
2.) double straight sword (jian)
3.) single broad sword (dan dao)
4.) staff (gun)
5.) 13 long pole (shisan gan)
6.) double mace (shuang jian)
7.) spring autumn big broadsword (chunjiu dadao)
8.) pear blossom spear with white ape staff (liuhua qiang/baiyuan gun)
9.) etc.

[dezhen2001]

cool, as i dont do chen i havent seen so much

lao ji yi and er lu,
xin jia yi and er lu
19 step form
38 step form
25 step form

broadsword
straight sword
spear
pole
kwan dao

thats it really, they look very cool... i know theres a lot more that we do such as fan, steel ball etc. but i havent seen it

dawood

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by dezhen2001

... thats it really, they look very cool... i know theres a lot more that we do such as fan, steel ball etc. but i havent seen it
dawood

There is also a 2 section staff form.
Steel ball weighs a mere 14kg(~31 pounds).
Not sure of the steel tube exercise as yet, only seen a few pics.

But those are still some way off for me.

Cheers.

[dezhen2001]

a mere 14kg LOL! i havent seen those, only read about them... im not a chen guy remember

dawood

[Tainan Mantis]

I posted some Shaolin stick clips in the thread called "video clips for stick"

You can see that one end is for hitting.
After this method is mastered the other end is used also.

Shaolin staff uses long range and the method of using a long weapon for close quarter fighting.

It is not the method where the grip is near the middle and you use your hands for push and pull leverage though.
That is rather dangerous as it leaves a big whole in the middle.

There is a method where the hands are near the middle, but closer to one side than the other as well as several other methods.


Ming dynasty Shaolin manuscripts also describe the chief movement and posture of staff and spear "barbarian surrendering pose"

One end of the weapon points to the enemy at all times.
Holding the weapon like a double ended oar for a kayak is not too good.

[germpest]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis

One end of the weapon points to the enemy at all times.
Holding the weapon like a double ended oar for a kayak is not too good.

why? for both of the sentences.

[hasayfu]

Just to chime in a bit. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. A middle grip like germpest posts is better for a shorter stick. About EyeBrow height as was mentioned. Trying to do long pole techniques with this staff is not that effective because to little of the end is left after proper gripping. The key to this style is the "double head." Your center is not as exposed as you may think.

Long pole techniques did originate from spear. In the "water margin" you read of people walking around with their spear and broadsword. It was common for people to bring these weapons into a restaurant. Spear techniques were derived from armies having to fight side by side so it's very linear. Later, it was thought that the point was too brutal and thus moved to long pole.

By holding it on one end, very small movements translate to very powerful movements at the end. My si-hing can pulverize walnuts at the end of his 9 foot staff with very little motion. Trying to grab the end from a good player can be very detrimental to your health :P

Hung Gar has both long and short stick sets.

[joedoe]

Interesting points. However, in our art we have a beggar's cane which is about 4' long. It is often used single-ended, but it is also often used single-handed as well.

Come to think of it, our 'long' pole is eyebrow height and we also use it predominantly single-ended. However we do transition to a central grip at times as well. The most power is actually generated by the transition between grips.

[No_Know]

====x'====l====x"=====

moves l as the body twists making an arc. No power from weapon center of balance.


=========x'=========x"

x' is the fulcrum and like a rudder x" quickly moves the other end for whiplike bludgeoning force.

Therefore this is more powerful and quicker. Also circular/arcing knocks can be made and a secondary action can begin while the initial strike finishes as it is waxwood and a flexible tool.

[TjD]

x======x==============================

for us

but the wing chun pole isn't used as much for whacking as it is for thrusting and stabbing (just like a spear).

we hold it very close to the base of the pole as it protects your hands by keeping them ****her away from your opponent. (when your hands get whacked by a pole - usually it gets dropped). so in a sense, keeping your hands in the center of the pole is just as dangerous when it comes to losing a pole because they are much easier to hit. in fact i'd say having someone grab my pole gives them less chance of taking it from me then if they hit my hands and i dropped it.

another reason for holding it like this is the obvious distance advantage, the wing chun pole is 9 to 9.5 feet long usually (sometimes more). by the time you run in the whack me with your pole (which functionally has half the length), if i'm any good hopefully youll be crying on the ground already

our pole is also very stiff - no flopping around like waxwood. made of oak or teak or some other hardwood. makes for less of the whipping power that no know speaks of - but makes the thrusts all that much more deadly.

[germpest]

the staffs we use are very hard and don't bend at all. My staff is stainded white oak, or something, it's pretty cool, and it's about 6'2". but you get more power from the center grip. pulling and pushing at the same time. For example, if you hit some one in the balls and then hit the in the nose, when their head is coming down from the groin hit, the force of that punch is twice the strength at least.

[No_Know]

That sounds like two punches. Groin shot then slight withdrawl to uppercut to the nose.