Gao Bagua Zhang compare to other Bagua Zhang

[dre_doggX]

whats the differences, and whats the advantage of the Gao style

[Laviathan]

But I once read that Gao Style Bagua differs from other Bagua styles in that it emphasize both circular and linear training, in contrast with Zheng Style Bagua is more circular and Yin style which is more linear in nature. Master Gao Yisheng learned both methods and developed a rather unique way of combining the two: in Gao Style, one trains the Pre-Heaven Bagua which is circular and then advances to Post-Heaven Bagua which is linear. Maybe some Bagua practioners can explain the details of this training?

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[Rockwood]

I've trained a little of Mr. Luo's Bagua from Taiwan. The foundation training is extensive. The two systems I learned a little of previously had some warm ups, but Gao's system has systematic basic skills training. Train the arm winding, the leg twisting, the waist turning piece by piece. It's very logical in that regard. You get a feeling for Bagua movement right away.
Another thing I noticed is that the fighting applications are clearly taught, immediately. The teachers I learned from before had techniques, but in the Gao system they spring right from the forms. The applications open your eyes to why the forms are done the way they are. Whether it's the first palm change or the first straight line form, the applications are natural. Again, the Bagua way of moving and fighting is clear right off the bat. I found in previous schools I had to struggle to figure out how this was different from what I was doing before. The Gao style really opens the door to how you want to move. That way you can flow from one thing to another real quick.
Naturalness and progressive training are things all martial arts strive for. The Gao style makes it easy if you follow the progression. The applications are great for helping develop a real natural flow in your movements.

-JessO

[maoshan]

Peace

Laviathan


Gao learned the Chang style period. Chou Yu Hsiang, his first teacher, was a student of Cheng Ting Hua.
The straight line approuch, it is said came from Xing-I.
He never learned Yin style.

Just to clear things up.

peace

Maoshan

[Laviathan]

Thank you for your information.

But it seems to me that you misunderstood my words; I didn't say Gao Yisheng learned Yin style, I said Gao learned both circular and linear methods. But I can understand how my words may sound confusing, implying that linear method = Yin Style Bagua.

Gao learned the Chang style period. Chou Yu Hsiang, his first teacher, was a student of Cheng Ting Hua.

Yes, but funny enough, some sources say that Gao was a disciple of Zhou Yuxiang, while others claim that Gao was a direct student of Cheng Tinghua after being introduced by Zhou Yuxiang. Could it be that Gao first learned from Zhou and later received further training from Cheng, and that's why people got confused?

Greetings,

Lav

[maoshan]

Peace

Laviathan

I did mis-understand you, and to try to make it even more clear
I'm going to try to do this from memory it's been awhile.

I can't remember his first teacher, but it was an external style that stressed the elbows.
His second teacher was Li Cun Yi from which it is thought that he got his straight line ideas from.
His third teacher was a man named Dong(not dong Hai Chuan)
who was a student of DHC. After 3yrs with this teacher he had only learned the single palm change and wouldn't teach any faster so Gao left.
His fourth teacher was Chou Yu Hsiang who presented him to Cheng Ting Hua. Not to long after that Cheng died and Gao recieved the majority of his Ba-Gua from Chou Yu Hsiang.

Hope that helped.

Take care

Maoshan

[Laviathan]

Very enlightening.

[shenwu disciple]

dre_doggX,

From my experience, gao bagua is a lot more demanding on the body than say, Sun style bagua, and Yin fu bagua, from what I've seen (I've never practiced Yin Fu Bagua). Gao bagua is also more "complete and complex" when compared to other bagua styles. For example, Sun bagua has about 8 circle forms (palm changes), depending on how you count them (10 max). That's it. Gao bagua has 8 circle forms and 64 line forms. THat's a lot of information to absorb.

Also, a lot of the stances/forms are done lower than other systems, which makes for a good workout.

My teacher, Tim Cartmell, said Gao style Bagua is like learning Xing Yi, Tai Ji, and a different system of Bagua all at once. Needless to say, very few of Tim's students have learned the whole system. In fact, Tim quit teaching Gao style bagua publically because no one trained long enough or hard enough to learn the whole thing. I've been studying Gao Bagua for almost six years, and I'm a little less than half way through the system. However, my lack of progress is my own fault. I'm sure I'll finish it eventually, after I get a few other styles out of my system.

Ya know, I don't think any of us have whole system?

[shawnsegler]

In my experience Yin style is PLENTY demanding on the body.

I think how you practice is what makes the difference, not the style. Practice with gung fu=demanding on the body.

Best,

Shawn.

[maoshan]

Peace

I was just passing through and read what you wrote:

"Gao bagua is also more "complete and complex" when compared to other bagua styles"

I have to disagree with you.

Yin style has the most in terms of material to learn and the most complete. Overall that is. Traditional Yin training put's a tax on your body that unless you've trained it you wouldn't understand.
Now you want to talk complex? Most of the ba-gua taught right now comes from Cheng Ting Hua's lineage. As it is taught here(U.S.) for the most part, it's taught soft, emphasis on the Yin aspect.

In the Yin style lohan is taught first with emphasis on the yang aspect which eventually takes you to the Yin. In the end you end up with a true understanding of the usage of transistions between Yin And yang and how they are applied interchangably during combat internally and externally. That's complex.

Also, You want complex? Do the Fu style. I've met Ba-Gua people who felt that it was too confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I like gao style. In particular liu fang Kai, he was bad!

I love all styles of Ba-Gua to keep it real. they all have the same thing. it's just that different styles stress different aspects. In the end, if you train, you'll find it all.

Peace

Maoshan

[Brad]

So what Bagua style would y'all say is the "simplist"?

[maoshan]

In truth, NONE

The fact that Ba-Gua is not a style of standardized forms and is in truth a principle keeps it from being relegated to any form of simplicity.
Ex:
In my experiance, Fu style has the lest amount of forms, but the complexity of executing those forms (depending on the individual)
can be extremly taxing.

Ba-Gua, in terms of levels, is the PHD of the martial Arts.
There is nothing simple about it

Peace

Maoshan

[Phantom Menace]

I'm quite happy with the Sun style. It has everything I need to fight with.

[Leimeng]

~ In my own limited experiance:
~ Kao I Sheng style is the most demanding on the knees
~ I feel Yin Fu most in my arms, especially the forearms. I also notice it in my upper back and neck area
~ I feel Lu Shui Tian stuff in my lower back
~ Liang Zhen Pu I feel all over but not as bad
~ Hsing I and Tong Bei work the shoulders like heck
~ Kajukenbo hurts all over
~ Escrima hurts really bad when you miss the rhythm of the training drill and have a rattan stick hit you upside the head
~ McDojo feels like an evening at the ballet
~ Bullets hurt everywhere and leaves blood and little holes


~ If martial arts are "easy" and "painless" for the first 10 years or so, you are doing it wrong. After 10 years, it is just less painless, but not neccessarily any easier.

~ All forms of BaGua that I have encountered have both linear and circular aspects. Not all teachers know these very well though.

~ Saying that an instructor does not know something well is not meant to be an insult to that instructor or that style. Many just were not taught for circumstances beyond their control. For instance. Hsing-I has a large number of two hand sets and drills. I know one Hsing-I master who is one of the softest feeling but hardest hitting people I know. He is in his eighties and can come up with ten or fifteen variations for each of the elements and animals and explain who taught that way and why. He does not know any two man stuff and does not teach it. He spent a large part of his adult life in a prison as a political prisoner by the communist party. Many of the BaGua people only learned two or three weapons of each style due to political events. That is not to say that one instructor who knows double tiger hook swords is more skilled than another individual of the same style who only knows a Dadao set. Politics and time prevented them from learning what the others know.
~ Then of course in typical Chinese fashion, they probably would not share it with each other once they learned it anyway....

~ Hope that confuses, confounds and helps all at the same time.

Peace,

Sin Loi

Yi Beng, Kan Xue