Why I left Wah Lum

[BAI HE]

Spiral,
There is supposedly a Tai Chi Mantis teacher in Boston. Do you
know who it is and what the origin of the style is?

[woliveri]

You're talking in circles. How can you teach and practice Qi Gong for so many years and make comments like you do? With that much devotion to an art which you scoff at your making me confusued. Have you gotten no benefits from your Qi Gong practice? What is your position on it's usefulness? Can you not give a feeling of Qi to someone?

Also, if you've been in WL all this time you're the exception than the rule. Could be that you're so far from the Temple. Are you a WL Sifu? If so you're allowed to teach Qi Gong? Are you in the good graces of the Temple?

Sorry Hua Lin. spiralstair, if yow want to take this to a new thread, we can.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

woliveri,
What forum do you Qi Gong guys hang out in? I have an interesting experiment to discuss and would like some feedback from the Internal practitioners. Trying to find out whether Qi is the force involved in the results.

If anyone at the Temple is curious ask Tom D. about the paper under the glass I showed him in the hotel lobby in Maryland.

[woliveri]

Hua Lin,
The only ones I know of are these:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...php?forumid=14
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...php?forumid=12

[mantis108]

Hi Bai He,

Please Check the following link for the school.

CCK TCPM

For further info. or inquiry please feel free to join our forum (link provided with my signature below.)

Regards

Mantis108

[ArrowFists]

Originally posted by KeyEssence
Hey, Arrowfist

I find your comment quite commical, please specify what you mean??????

Shouldn't it be obvious? Anytime a school reaches the success level of WL (i.e. becomes a chain), it becomes more about the money, and less about the art. The WL school in my area charges insanely high class fees, and the students it produces aren't particularly skilled.

[carly]

And why would anyone pay a lot to learn wah lum?

[Brad]

Here's it's $100 a month.

[ArrowFists]

Originally posted by Brad
Here's it's $100 a month.

I actually heard that its more if you participate is some programs. $100 a month is the BASE price.

I pay $10 bucks a month for my instruction, and I guarentee we're getting more for our dollar than those Wah Lum folks are.

[Tainan Mantis]

Arrowfist,
Would you mind telling us a little about your school and style of MA?

[BAI HE]

Thanks for the info mantis108.
Looks like interesting stuff.
Have a good day.

[Brad]

man... you've got a nice settup then ArrowFists, lol. Myself and the other advanced students in my class pay $80/month while the rest pay $100/quarter(about $20/month I guess). Ours is a college club though, and our teacher's only source of income :-P

[ArrowFists]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Arrowfist,
Would you mind telling us a little about your school and style of MA?

I'm a nidan in Shotokan karate, been doing it for ten years. I've also done Judo for 5 years. I've been around long enough to know quality students when I see them, and for the amount of money Wah Lum charges, I don't see an equal amount quality being produced in the students.

Now maybe that's not the case with Wah Lum students nationwide, but where I live, that's what I'm seeing.

[spiralstair]

Woliveri wrote to Spiralstair:

"You're talking in circles. How can you teach and practice Qi Gong for so
many years and make comments like you do? With that much devotion to an art which you scoff at your making me confusued. Have you gotten no benefit from your Qi Gong practice? What is your position on it's usefulness? Can
you not give a feeling of Qi to someone?

Also, if you've been in WL all this time you're the exception than the rule.
Could be that you're so far from the Temple. Are you a WL Sifu? If so you're
allowed to teach Qi Gong? Are you in the good graces of the Temple?"


Woliveri,

I started Chi Kung when it was called that instead of Qi Kung and there were
one or two apparently real Masters willing to openly teach the 'indoor' informationThis was before it became overwhelmingly popular in China and still clung to its Taoist roots.

The initial group of students who were attracted to it in the Northeast were
all 'old school', martial artists, Buddhist, TM, and other long term meditators.[ No 'Wicca', no 'Tantric', no 'Rebirthing-soft-music-listening-long-distance-healing-aura-sensing-only-accentuate-the-po
sitive-loose-clothes-wearing-people-of-the-Earth' need apply. ]

It was awesome. My ongoing WL practice had provided me the muscular and
skeletal structure to easily feel the 'chi'. Many others in the initial
group also felt it work. I wondered at the time, "Why is this information
usually held back towards the end of a martial artist's development? You
know, the come into the back room after 20 years and learn the Microcosmic Orbit sort of thing."

The answer came soon enough with Chi Kung's rising popularity. The group
around the Masters rapidly grew with those people described in the brackets
above. These people tended to have no PHYSICAL background in anything. Nogrounding in the day-to-day work that gradually climbing the never-ending
stairs of a traditional martial practice gives a practitioner. They were
overwhelmingly MENTAL.


After some time of interacting with this 'new school' type it became clear to me that the traditional martial arts emphasis on physical development first before energy work had a strong grounding in reality. Those whose life was based on a 'physical' path had learned to really 'feel' their bodies through the constant interplay between muscle and bone and intention. Through constant correction in forms ,through contact in application practice and fighting, through healing injury and contemplating pain. These people actually could feel their real physical selves, so they had a better chance of feeling the 'chi'. This has proven true in my own teaching practice, the best groups I have taught Chi Kung to have been a group of professional hockey players, and a group of weight lifters.These guys wouldn't claim to feel anything till they actually 'physically' could. So When some of them 'felt' it, it was real.

The 'Mental' type though, almost all felt 'chi' right away. Usually with all sorts of interesting side effects of colors, odors, sounds, lights, dreams, spontaneous healings, ect. They were so used to living in their bodies 'through' their minds, that feeling 'chi' became just another concept 'laid over' their 'idea' of their body. What I'm saying is that the whole thing exists mainly in their minds. In my experience this type of person doesn't really have it, but because they have no firm physical practice with which to 'test' it, they just assume they've 'got it'.

This story could go on and on.( there's the part about the competition to be the most'spiritual' in the eyes of the Master, the part to see who's got the most 'chi', the part about the Masters and their adoring female students...blah,blah,blah) Basically I'd say that yes Qi Kung is useful, yes 'chi' can be passed, yes to all your questions in that paragraph.

Why Post this here in the NPM board? Because I usually find myself defending the good name of my teacher, Master Chan, from people whose one sharing characteristic is that they've left WL and that they speak English better than he. Now it's that he doesn't 'know' Qi Kung. Actually his approach IS, like him, the 'old school' traditional CMA way. For that, the young whelps find fault, with one third his experience. It's getting old, don't you think? Over and Out.

Peace

[ArrowFists]

Originally posted by Brad
man... you've got a nice settup then ArrowFists, lol. Myself and the other advanced students in my class pay $80/month while the rest pay $100/quarter(about $20/month I guess). Ours is a college club though, and our teacher's only source of income :-P

Well if your teacher is giving you quality instruction, then its worth the price.

If he isn't, find another school.

The problem is that people tend to become loyal to their instructors (especially if they're Asian) even when its detrimental to their growth as martial artists.