Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: The UN - Perhaps they have CAUSED this WAR?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Texas, DFW
    Posts
    663

    The UN - Perhaps they have CAUSED this WAR?

    I understand the impending war with Iraq is quite a mess from all perspectives. This is a problem we are left with.

    My big beef is this. Why did the UN allow Saddam to throw inpectors out years ago with NO action? Could the world have not dealt with this problem when it was happening instead of letting it fester to the degree that now we have 250K troops and countless people having to die now?

    It is like a bad tooth. You can go to the Dentist now, with a little pain, or you can go to the Dentist later, with a lot of pain.

    Why was there such a huge delay between when inpectors were thrown out, and the recent re-introduction of inpectors? And lets not forget how much BS the US had to go through to get everybody on board with letting inpectors go back in.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    You are standing in my space.
    Posts
    1,558
    Money. The French and the Russians have long-term options in Iraq.

    People say the U.S. is in this for the oil. Which is stupid. Companies like Halliburton will get big contracts for environmental clean-up - who pays for it - us, the taxpayers.

    The new authorities in Iraq will remember that the French and Russians did nothing to protect them. While the US stood by for the most part also - we are going in. So, yeah, American companies might make a penny there.

    While we have been conditioned by decades of spin doctoring to not trust anyone or anything, I'm still more likely to beleive my government over the Iraqi regime.

    It is unfortunate that it is impossible to have full disclosure. I'd like to know if I am being fooled or not. But given the cards I see, and knowing history, I fear that the U.S. is very correct, and it is a pity to stand mostly alone in this situation.

    Nontheless, I'm glad Rumsfeld, Powell and all are in the cabinet, because I'm none to sure about our leader. I could see Reagan doing this, but he'd have the world behind him a little more. I could see Clinton accomplishing nothing because he is afraid to offend.

    Oh well, now I'm sure I've p!ssed off all the tachi hippies....
    "Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."
    --- Napoleon

    "MonkeySlap is a brutal b@stard." -- SevenStar
    "Forgive them Lord, they know not what MS2 can do." -- MasterKiller
    "You're not gonna win a debate (or a fight) with MST. Resistance is futile." - Seven Star

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,614

    Re: The UN - Perhaps they have CAUSED this WAR?

    Originally posted by CD Lee

    My big beef is this. Why did the UN allow Saddam to throw inpectors out years ago with NO action?
    CORRECTION.

    The U.N. PULLED them out so that the USA could bomb Iraq.

    Hate it when people get well documented facts wrong.

    This can be very easily verified by the way.

    Peace.
    Witty signature under construction.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,544
    Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

    Nontheless, I'm glad Rumsfeld, Powell and all are in the cabinet, because I'm none to sure about our leader.
    This is worth repeating.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,544
    Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

    Oh well, now I'm sure I've p!ssed off all the tachi hippies....
    And, uh, "Oh Yeah!?!?!?"
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  6. #6

    A great article on the situation

    [FTW asked retired U.S. Army Special Forces Master Sergeant Stan Goff to re-examine what we can expect on the battlefield when the United States begins its invasion. The former instructor of military science at West Point describes a scenario that is vastly different from what was expected last September before the Bush administration encountered effective economic and political opposition. Now denied the luxuries of a multi-front invasion from Turkey and Saudi Arabia the U.S. war strategy has changed. The bottom line is that a great many more innocent civilians are going to be killed. And the first and possibly crippling breakdown of U.S. plans will happen in Kurdestan. – MCR]
    Read the rest here:

    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ing_start.html
    Fun is my Chinese neighbors middle name...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Houston, Tx. USA
    Posts
    1,358
    Rumsfeld and others are on record being involved in a group that planned and advocated the "Democratization" of Iraq (translated as what is happening now) back in 1997 - i.e. BEFORE Bush's election.

    The UN inpsectors - as a matter of record known by everyone but ingored by most in the US - were pulled out because of pending US bombings.

    No one is ever responsible for a war except for those governments that engage in it...primarily those that are first aggresors.

    Whether you agree or not with Bush...the bottom line on this is that Bush with his friends are at the helm saying when and if to go to war.

    It is unfortunate that Congress has abdicated its responsibiities with laws it passed in 2002.

    But...

    bottom line is that no one should try to shift responsibility or blame for what is about to happen. It is a choice and choices always have consequences...some good and some bad.

    Make your choices and live with the consequences.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Texas, DFW
    Posts
    663
    Laughing Cow -

    Yes, the UN pulled them out because Saddam would not cooperate. Whats the difference? Saddam woul d basically not allow certain inspections. Pure defiance. So the UN response??? Just leave.

    No action to stop Saddam. Clinton, of course would never do anything, as usual. I have been waiting for years for some leader to have the b@lls to do something when dangerous people defy the world.

    So, they way I see it, the UN caused this mess to begin with by doing nothing to stop Saddam when he first became uncooperative. Now somebody has got to go clean up the mess.

    My original question. Does anybody understand why the UN and the US, not to mention others, did nothing to stop this in 1998 when it came to a boil? I really don't understand why.

    I am pretty sure Monkey Slap is onto the real reason....sickening frankly.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    You are standing in my space.
    Posts
    1,558
    Hey WD, I thought you were a taichi 'gangsta', what with all that hip-hop stuff, man.

    Besides I'm just trying to irritate Shooter, 'cause I think he's all right.
    "Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."
    --- Napoleon

    "MonkeySlap is a brutal b@stard." -- SevenStar
    "Forgive them Lord, they know not what MS2 can do." -- MasterKiller
    "You're not gonna win a debate (or a fight) with MST. Resistance is futile." - Seven Star

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,614
    Originally posted by CD Lee
    Laughing Cow -

    Yes, the UN pulled them out because Saddam would not cooperate. Whats the difference? Saddam woul d basically not allow certain inspections. Pure defiance. So the UN response??? Just leave.
    The way I understand the events:

    US says pull you the Inspectors out as we will bomb Iraq and don't want to kill/hurt them.
    I think the U.N. was prepared to continue with inspections at that stage.


    My original question. Does anybody understand why the UN and the US, not to mention others, did nothing to stop this in 1998 when it came to a boil? I really don't understand why.
    I guess that question will remain unanswered for many more years, if it will ever get answered.

    Cheers.
    Witty signature under construction.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Texas, DFW
    Posts
    663


    No one is ever responsible for a war except for those governments that engage in
    it...primarily those that are first aggresors.
    Let us make a distinction. Aggresors do not have to be invaders per se...or first stikers. If one country shows signs that it can threaten or will threaten your countrie's security, then war can begin based on that threat.

    If there were another Hitler, doing the same things he did BEFORE he bagan his attacks outside his country, and we knew, would he be responsile for war or would those that attack him first be responsible?

    It is the same in fighting a street or bar fight. If I get in a guys face, and start posturing, I may well cause him to attack me. Even if he throws the first punch. I caused the fight by my actions, knowing full well that they could potentially cause conflict. If I slept with his girl, or planted a bomb in his car, and he finds out, then who caused the fight? Who is the aggressor?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Worthington, OH, USA
    Posts
    1,808
    The UN inpsectors - as a matter of record known by everyone but ingored by most in the US - were pulled out because of pending US bombings.
    Frontline had a very interesting show on this topic, I think lastnight. Interviewed one of the inspectors involved, and he talked a lot about how the UN gave almost no support when asked by the inspectors.

    But yes, the inspectors were pulled out by the UN but it was after Iraq had refused to let them do their jobs, eventually claiming some were spies for the US.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Worthington, OH, USA
    Posts
    1,808
    Anyway, I do think the UN is a huge part of the problem, but Bush also did a very poor job on the diplomatic front to put everyone in the situation we're in now. No matter who's "fault" it is, the whole thing really makes the UN seem kind of useless. Hopefully it will be a quick, decisive victory and America with the help of our allies(and whomever else decides to jump on the bandwagon) can turn Iraq into a free democratic society. I have my doubts though.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    4,544
    Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
    Hey WD, I thought you were a taichi 'gangsta', what with all that hip-hop stuff, man.
    Nah, I'm just me. Whatever the he!! that is.
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    from www.freepress.org

    March 9, 2003

    Has the Bush Administration suckered the United Nations into weakening Iraq prior to a mass murderous attack that was pre-ordained years ago?

    The facts are these:

    · Bush's original official stance was that the United Nations must force Iraq to disarm, in keeping with treaties signed after Iraq's 1991 defeat after invading Kuwait. His charges that Iraq had failed to honor these promises led the United Nations to force it to further disarm;

    · According to the official report of UN weapons inspectors, as delivered Friday, March 7 by Hans Blix, Iraq has made "significant" steps toward disarming, among other things destroying many of its missiles;

    · According to additional reports, Iraq may have destroyed most or all of its chemical and biological weapons early in the 1990s;

    · According to most credible reports, Iraq does not have the near-term ability to build nuclear weapons;

    In short, by all internationally accepted standards, Iraq has moved toward significant compliance with the formal demands of the United Nations, and cannot be considered a credible threat to the United States.

    At the behest of the UN, Iraq has significantly weakened its ability to defend its citizens from mass slaughter by an attacking superpower.

    But George W. Bush says just such a mass slaughter may come no matter what the UN Security Council or its weapons inspectors say about Iraq's compliance with the UN's---and Bush's---original demands.

    At his press conference Thursday, March 6, Bush dictated a new requirement for avoiding mass slaughter on which the UN never voted, and which was never formally presented to the Iraqis: Saddam Hussein must go.

    Should Bush attempt to enforce this demand with mass violence, he will have used the United Nations---and Iraqi compliance with UN mandates---in a shell game to diminish the Iraqis' ability to defend themselves.

    Such a move would rank as one of the most cynical ploys ever used by any world leader. It would forever pollute the reputation of the United States of America. It would permanently cripple if not destroy the peace-keeping ability of the United Nations.

    There's little doubt Saddam Hussein may well have more to hide. He is a violent dictator, like dozens of others the US has installed in victim nations over the decades.

    But Bush's homeland contempt for the US Bill of Rights and other Constitutional guarantees of personal freedom, privacy and human rights makes suspect the kind of "democracy" he might bring to a conquered Iraq.

    Through the Project for a New American Century and other right-wing think tanks, key Bush cohorts such as Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, have long demanded a "regime change" in Iraq that would lead to US hegemony over Arab oil reserves. Iraq would be the first Middle Eastern "domino" to fall definitively under direct US control.

    But in 1996, Bush's father, former President George Herbert Walker Bush, warned that "to occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero."

    Former Defense Secretary **** Cheney, now Bush Junior's vice president, later said that a war in the streets of Baghdad "would have put large numbers of Iraqi civilians and hundreds of thousands of our troops at risk of being killed."

    Cheney added in 1997 that finding Saddam Hussein was worth "not very many" American lives. "The only way to make certain you could get him was to go occupy all of Iraq and start sorting through Iraqis until you find Saddam Hussein."

    Last year Secretary of State Colin Powell warned Bush Junior that an attack on Iraq without strong global support could be "much more complicated and bloody" than the first Gulf War.

    That might be the understatement of the new millennium. UN weapons inspectors have increased Iraq's vulnerability to martial conquest. Through bait-and-switch, Bush has used the UN and its members as instruments of a military agenda they have not approved.

    It's hard to imagine the global firestorm of revulsion and fury that would explode should Bush now use the advantage they've given him to kill Iraqi citizens for regional hegemony, as he clearly intended to do all along.

    Harvey Wasserman is senior editor of www.freepress.org and author of THE LAST ENERGY WAR (Seven Stories Press).
    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •