Sun Toi Kwoon Altar

[5thBrother]

Hello.

I am interested in the Sun Toi kung fu alter..

does ur school have one?

what does it consist of?

what ceremonies / acts do u perform to it when u train?

do all students place incense before start of trainin?

what procedure do u follow?

any pictures would be interesting too?


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also any ging mo kune people.. now that master malcolm sue changed from to form his style whose/what picture is placed in honour? just curios. is it still Master Lau Soei?

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thanks

actaully also what cultural aspects do u keep in your school/system old traditions and that kind of thing. interesting.

5thBro

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Yes we have one...Kwan Gong, Incense urn, fruit, cups, weapons and of course the sayings. We use it to pay respect and honor all the masters who have handed the art down so we have it today.

GHD

[GeneChing]

...in another magazine though IKF SEP 92.

[5thBrother]

thanks.. would u or someone with it care to scan and post that article?

thanks

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Yes, that was a great article Gene.

GHD

[GeneChing]

I figured it was the Confucian thing to do - start my martial publishing with the ancestral altar and move out from there. Seems to have worked.

[ngokfei]

5th brother

The modern "Kung Fu Altar" is the following.

Center portrait of Kwan Gung (god of war/money/etc)

Below would be pictures/portraits of the schools/styles Ancestors (from the left( most senior) to right (least senior). Also to be on this altar all individuals must be deceased/dead. If there is no picture available people just use the lineage chart (going from most senior on top down to the least senior).

Today with most schools teaching more than one style, it is customary to divide the altar in 1/2 or 1/3, etc. thus making minny altars. Traditionally there would be a separate complete altar for each style.

As for caligraphies.

on top of the entire altar is the school's "pai" or sign. It could either be just the name of the style but more likely it is a poetic saying ex: "Brave Chivalrous Hall" etc.

The side caligraphies are usually a play on words describing the theories or beliefs ofthe style. Each is read top to bottom. But can also be combined from side to side.

the top sign board usually has a bright red ribbon draped over it with a mirrored glass/metal in the midle to drive off evil spirits just like the ones found on the lion dance head. Some of themore traditional schools have feathers or special ceremonial placards on each of the corners. There are special means for the actual angle of placement for these feathers. Outward, Inward or just straight up.

As for the place settings. If there is room there should be an urn, cup and sticks for each ancestor. If there isn't room a central urn with six cups are typically seen used. Various foods and fruits and offered up in the more traditional schools but that makes it very religous which in todays world tends to drive modern students away.

Below the altar are two smaller altars. One to the earth god and the other to the money fairy. Each require specific requirements and maintenance just likethe main altar.

It is usuall to place the responsiblity for maintenance of the schools altar with the most senior disciiple. Only disiciples are usually allowed to burn incense and make offereings. This is usually after the student has done the "bai Si" ceremony.

hope this helps.

ps: don't burn white candles unless you have a new addition to the altar (recent death). This ritual has very specific requirments as well.

later

[ngokfei]

sorry made an error.

the ancestor pictures should be from right to left, just like readingthe sign board.

Also you can use a statue of Kwan Gung instead of a Portrait. More expensive but just as good.

later

[5thBrother]

thank you

very informative

5thbro


ps. is there any significance or meaning in the number of incense sticks used?

thanks

[Serpent]

Gene, is there anywhere online that we can find a copy of that article?

[GeneChing]

Since altars are fairly personal, you'll find a lot of variation in specific forms, yet like so many things Chinese, simliarities in the underlying concepts and general structures. For instance, most Shaolin Buddhist altars don't usually venerate Lord Kwan but use Tamo , Kwan Yin, Jinnaluo Wang or Buddha. Some Taoist altars might focus on Zhang San Feng, Zhong Wu or Zhang Daoling .

In a related topic, in our issue in production (JUL AUG 2003) we go into an original Hung Men Tribunal Hall and decode a lot of the symbolism. Hung Men venerate Lord Kwan and are avid fans of the Three Kingdoms epic. Plus there's the whole Ming underground symbolism. It had a tremendous influence on the altars we see in the U.S.A., since many of the early pioneers had some Hung Men influence and this has perpetuated into the next generation. The new wave of mainland masters generally don't set up altars - probably a post-CR thing - except the Shaolin monks of course, and their altars are more Buddhist.

Hung Men interpret the use of three as heaven, earth and man. This is a pretty common interpretation, although you'll see some variation in it. So they do three sticks of incense, three bows, and often train patterns of three, etc.

As for my old article, I don't think it's online, but poke around. If you find it, let me know.

[Gold Horse Dragon]

I still have that issue of IKF with your article...Gene, if you want I can scan it at work (PDF only is available), and e mail it to you. Since you are the author, all requests for it would have to be sent to you.

Interesting on the Hung Mun...we also do this in threes in our Kwoon (southern Sil Lum Black Tiger - Hak Fu Pai). I would tend to think that most hard core southern systems would follow this, as most were associated with anti-ching activities.

GHD

[Serpent]

GHD, that's a very generous offer.

Gene, take him up on it and send me a copy!

[5thBrother]

i also request that you consider letting them be scanned. and i would like get a copy if u do please.

thank you

5th Bro

[GeneChing]

...it's sort of a sticky situation since it's an IKF article. Given my position with Kung Fu Qigong, it's a conflict of interest for me to give out reprints of that article. This is sort of like when John Fogerty got sued by the record companies for sounding too much like CCR. Anyway, my hands are tied. I don't really have the rights either way. But if GHD were to take the matter into his own hands, theirs nothing I could do.