Lifting weighs

[Lews]

Ok I know that everyone has had this debate before but I have some questions for you all:

1.Do you have to train harder for speed to compensate for lifting heavy weights?

2.If you lift and don't practice for a while do you see yourself becoming slower

3.If there is anyone out there who lifts weights I would like to know how he incorporates that to his workout

thanks in advance brothers and please stay on topic....

[AndrewS]

1). No, weights have improved my speed.

2). Dunno, I have never stopped practicing long enough to be able to observe this. I usually do footwork or turns between sets when I'm lifting for serious strength and need 5-6 min rest intervals. Why wouldn't you be able to practice?

3). I cycle my lifting schedule, make sure to get rest, and these days keep all my reps low <6, using a variety of schemes to achieve anatomic adaptation, hypertrophy, and strength, based on a loose interpretation of periodization literature. I use free weights wherever possible, primarily squat and deadlift, with some old-school strongman lifts for my upperbody.

I also use kettlebells for fun and cardio.

Basically- keep it simple. Lift free weights. If you're not squatting or deadlifting, stop wasting your time in the gym. Isolation is useful only for looks and rehabbing.

Later,

Andrew

P.S. One of my seniors *only* oly lifts and trains for competetive oly lifting for his weight work. It's been superb for him.

[AndrewS]

Oh yeah,

when possible, I try to separate my weight work from my martial practice by 6 hrs and avoid hard partner work and heavy lifting on the same day, particularily one after the other.

Squatting at 85% RM1 then going to do full-contact or vica versa is f*ck'n stupid. And yes, I've learned that the hard way.

Andrew

[[Censored]]

Lifting weights? Isn't the pole heavy enough for you?

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Lews
Ok I know that everyone has had this debate before but I have some questions for you all:

1.Do you have to train harder for speed to compensate for lifting heavy weights?

2.If you lift and don't practice for a while do you see yourself becoming slower

3.If there is anyone out there who lifts weights I would like to know how he incorporates that to his workout

thanks in advance brothers and please stay on topic....

1. No. See 3.

2. No.

3. Resistance training days: Full-body warmup - full-body stretches - weights - full-body cooldown (3-stage) - full-body stretches (incorporate WC practice into warmups and cooldowns). Alternate days, 30-40 mins cardio, also incorporating WC practice.

Staying on topic - why worry about this? Just take what you need.

[IRONMONK]

hi,

i know most athletes use weight training and some world class martial artist who have phenomenal speed.
i have noticed that guys that do weight lifting tend to be very tense but then i have seen guys who weight train and are very fast and relaxed in chi sao. So my biggest fear of weight training is that i become slower and tense.
maybe those guys who are slower weight train incorrectly?so how do u weight train to get positive results(increased speed etc)?
Wing chun is an art that doesnt fight force against force-so what benefits does weight training give to the wing chun practioner?

[wingchunalex]

I lift weights. My sifu does too. he attributes being in good health at 50 to lifting. Lifting hasn't hurt my speed. its just you gotta keep doing things with explosive (snapy) force. i think its just a matter of being able to relax the muscles you are not using.

i don't think getting huge is a good thing, but sculpting your body is fine. being one of those huge body builders could slow you down. but having a good chizled body is not going to hurt your wing chun.

having nice tennis ball bicepts is fine i think, shouldn't slow you down. but having the mass of the guys in the world's strongest man contests probably would.

my weight training and wing chun practice is separate. I just lift 3 times a week in the morning. I train my wing chun at other times.

I separtate conditioning and wing chun practice.

I know bruce lee said something about doing finess movements when you are not tired so you're technique is good.

Oh, yeah, that reminds me. bruce lee lifted weights and he was really fast.

I hope that helped.

[EnterTheWhip]

Originally posted by [Censored]
Lifting weights? Isn't the pole heavy enough for you?

You speak truth.

[Stevo]

So my biggest fear of weight training is that i become slower and tense.

It won't make you slow and tense if you warmup and cooldown and stretch. (This will extend each lifting session by another 40 mins or so).

Re. weight training, I'm talking more about strengthening and toning the muscles, rather than piling on bulk for the sake of it (which is actually hard to do for most people, anyway - which is why weightlifting supplements are a multi-billion dollar industry, and why so many bodybuilders take anabolic steroids and growth hormones).

maybe those guys who are slower weight train incorrectly?so how do u weight train to get positive results(increased speed etc)?

warmup(calisthenics)-->stretches-->lift-->cooldown(calisthenics+extra cardio)-->stretches.

Also, some 'explosive' or plyometric-type lifting - push out the weight fast and lower it slowly. Plus, higher reps with lower weights at times.

Stretching should work at least the muscles being used in the lifts that session, but unless I'm short of time, I aim to do full-body stretches each session.

Wing chun is an art that doesnt fight force against force-so what benefits does weight training give to the wing chun practioner?

It's good for your health and wellbeing (and stamina, if done properly) and makes it easier to stay slim - ie some extra muscle cranks up your metabolism and burns fat.

I personally find it relaxes me a lot, as any vigorous exercise does.

It strengthens your muscles and tendons and ligaments, making injury in emergency situations less likely.

Strength in reserve is a good thing to have - you never know when you may need it. Wing Chun, or our use of it, isn't infallible.

Also, if you look fit and strong, you may not be so likely to have to use Wing Chun in the first place, ie you may be less susceptible to being targeted by muggers, who will often pick what they consider to be easy targets (the 'victim syndrome').

[Block]

The key thing to remember is that you don't substitute strength for your Wing Chun technique and structure.

Speed and power in Wing Chun comes from relaxation and structure. I see many new students who are built like body builders try to use their strength in their techniques because that’s what they have learnt to rely on.

The hardest thing to do is to change this inner strategy to stop using muscular strength and to use relaxed force and technique.

Back to your issues

1.Do you have to train harder for speed to compensate for lifting heavy weights?

No. Infact heavy resistance training will increase your speed. At a muscular level there are 2 types of muscle fibres, fast twitch and slow twitch. Not to get too technical but fast twitch muscle fibres are responsible for speed and power. The way to train them is not to do lots of reps at low weights (as most people believe) but fewer reps at high weights. If you want some references I can get them for to you.

2.If you lift and don't practice for a while do you see yourself becoming slower

If you don't train you are likely to slow down somewhat anyway. But as long as you don't make the fundamental mistake of relying on strength but stick to your Wing Chun principles you'll be fine.

3.If there is anyone out there who lifts weights I would like to know how he incorporates that to his workout.

If you really want to get the most out of weight training I suggest you start with Bill Phillips book Body for Life. It's a great program that I and many of my fellow students follow and it really works great.

Good luck with it. If you want some more info, I'm happy to give you some links.

[mun hung]

Gave up bodybuiding for kung fu. I actually feel much better and...lighter.

Might go back to the gym for light workouts in the future, but that's strictly for the chicks!

Polework? Nothing like it. Miss it. Have to wait for my wrist to heal up from a fracture.

[foolinthedeck]

you may think that you can lift weights and not be too tense, but your own feeling of tesnion is relative. most of us think we are relaxed. it takes another person to do chi sau with you to tell you that no you're not relaxed.

and the pole is heavy enough - ouch!

[Stevo]

Originally posted by foolinthedeck
you may think that you can lift weights and not be too tense, but your own feeling of tesnion is relative. most of us think we are relaxed. it takes another person to do chi sau with you to tell you that no you're not relaxed.

and the pole is heavy enough - ouch!

Can you explain why lifting weights is meant to make you tense? Are you built like a stick insect? If not, chances are that you have actually used your muscles at some stage during your life, causing them to undergo some growth. Has that made you tense?

[foolinthedeck]

theres some difference between
a) using muscles
and
b) lifting weights specifically to train muscles.

like i said before, you may not feel as if they make you tenser but they will to the other guy.
having said that there are ways and means. the book "brawn" and "beyond Brawn" are worth a look.
and if you must lift i'd recommend you lift as slowly as possible like 5 counts up 5 counts down, not this quick pump pump thing.

i'm no stick insect, my body doesnt turn heads, but i can easily deal with muscle heads in wing chun situs, and can FEEL when people do weights. the only people i know who really have sensitivity and feel are my sifu, my best mate in wing chun, and most of my female wc sisters

[Atleastimnotyou]

Originally posted by foolinthedeck
you may think that you can lift weights and not be too tense, but your own feeling of tesnion is relative. most of us think we are relaxed. it takes another person to do chi sau with you to tell you that no you're not relaxed.

i agree with this 100%.