View Poll Results: Will the war be

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  • long and drawn out

    1 10.00%
  • quick and soon over

    6 60.00%
  • not sure.

    3 30.00%
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Thread: ALL IRAQ topics here.

  1. #331

    Cruelty and Deception- Saddam's gambit?

    Enemy tactics blend cruelty, cunning
    By Sharon Schmickle -- McClatchy Newspapers
    Last Updated 6:20 a.m. PST Thursday, March 27, 2003

    CAMP VIPER, Iraq -- Marine Sgt. Steven Zakar said he saw boys about 7 years old armed with AK-47 rifles standing in front of Iraqi troops on the banks of the Euphrates River.

    Marine Cpl. Stephen Hammond said he saw a hospital replete with fake patients and doctors used as a headquarters for Iraqi forces.


    Three Iraqi prisoners of war said their officers shot them on suspicion they planned to desert. Other Iraqis told of shooting their officers in order to desert.


    Eyewitnesses from the front lines -- Iraqis and Americans alike -- bitterly accuse President Saddam Hussein's forces of committing possible war crimes and human rights atrocities in order to maintain control -- of troops and civilians -- in south-central Iraq.


    The response from those close to the firefights is outrage and a grim resolve to finish off Saddam's regime.


    "Any war crime you can think of is happening," said Zakar, from Toms River, N.J. "They have no respect for human life, and in turn I have no respect for them. ... This is wrong."


    Zakar and other observers gave their accounts while being treated in a tent emergency room run by Charlie Surgical Company's Shock Trauma Platoon 8.


    The Iraqis consistently fight in civilian clothing, blending in with residents of the cities that have been hot spots in the war, many witnesses said.


    "I have never seen an Iraqi fighter in uniform," said Marine Cpl. Stephen Hammond, 22, of Glendale, Ariz. He spent three days in fierce battle for control of bridges spanning the Euphrates River at the city of An Nasiriyah. He told his story from a bed in a surgical tent where he was treated Wednesday for a gunshot wound to his right leg.


    Hammond caught the bullet during a battle for a low-rise, sand-colored building that was marked as a hospital. American forces watching the hospital had seen people come and go dressed as patients and medical staff, he said, but they had reason to suspect it was a military stronghold.


    When Marines stormed the facility Tuesday and took control, he said, they found Iraqi military uniforms, documents giving American positions and other intelligence information.


    Hammond takes offense at the deception. The Iraqis are killing Americans, he said, by violating internationally recognized rules of behavior in combat, such as restrictions on attacking civilians and hospitals.


    "They tried to take advantage of our rules of engagement," Hammond said.


    The rules bar attacks on civilians and on facilities such as hospitals. "They would put on civilian clothing and walk out of the hospital as if nothing was happening inside," Hammond said.


    Meanwhile, three Iraqi prisoners of war who were treated for gunshot wounds this week said in separate interviews that their attackers were their own officers, said Lt. Kolan Wright, a physician who oversees the ward where the prisoners are recovering under Marine guard. Wright sat in on the translated interviews, he said.


    The report jibes with a statement by at least one other wounded Iraqi prisoner who was captured elsewhere.


    "It doesn't surprise me," said Lt. Cmdr. Ethan Bachrach, an emergency room physician and the officer in charge of the shock trauma platoon. "The rumor has been that the penalty for desertion in the Iraqi army is death."


    There also have been unconfirmed reports, he said, that skilled professional officers were sent into the region to hold rag-tag bands of nonprofessional fighters in line.


    Apparently the Iraqi troops fully understand the stakes. Zakar said that he helped guard and search three dozen Iraqis who surrendered.


    "They said they killed almost all of their officers to get away and then walked two days across the desert to surrender," he said.


    Zakar was treated Wednesday for wounds from a grenade in a hip and arm after a battle in An Nasiriyah, where he had been guarding the south side of a bridge spanning the Euphrates, a strategic point in U.S. plans to move supplies ****her north in Iraq.


    On one occasion, he said, Iraqi forces assembled in front of a row of houses on the north side of the river and opened fire on the Marines.


    Standing in front of the Iraqis was a boy who appeared to be about 7 years old brandishing an AK-47 rifle, Zakar said. He had seen other boys in similar positions, he said.


    "They don't appear to know what they are doing with the weapons, but they have managed to fire them," he said.


    Despite Iraqi attempts to intimidate civilians, Zakar said, some Iraqis have befriended U.S. troops.


    "We were positioned near an area where there are farms," he said. "The farmers were very nice to us. They told us they were anti-Saddam. They would offer us tea every time they saw us. All they seemed to want to do is to work their land and be left alone."


    Sharon Schmickle is a reporter for the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

  2. #332
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    Talking this'll go over REAL well.

    March 26, 2003, 10:12PM

    2 Christian organizations are ready to convert Iraqis

    By MARK O'KEEFE
    Newhouse Service
    Two leading evangelical Christian missionary organizations say they have teams of workers poised to enter Iraq to address the physical and spiritual needs of a large Muslim population.

    The Southern Baptist Convention, the country's largest Protestant denomination, and the Rev. Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse say workers are near the Iraq border in Jordan and are ready to go in as soon as it is safe.

    The relief and missionary work is certain to be closely watched because both Graham and the Southern Baptist Convention have been at the heart of controversial evangelical denunciations of Islam, the world's second largest religion.

    ......
    Richard Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs of the National Association of Evangelicals, is urging caution for the two groups, as well as other evangelical organizations planning to go into Iraq.

    "Evangelicals need to be sensitive to the circumstances of this country and its people," said Cizik, based in Washington, D.C. "If we are perceived as opportunists we only hurt our cause. If this is seen as religious freedom for Iraq by way of gunboat diplomacy, is that helpful? I don't think so. If that's the perception, we lose."

    Graham, the son of legendary evangelist Billy Graham, has been less diplomatic about Islam than his father has been.

    Two months after the Sept. 11 attacks, Franklin Graham called Islam "a very evil and wicked religion" during an interview on NBC-TV In his book published last year, The Name, Graham wrote that "The God of Islam is not the God of the Christian faith." He went on to say that "the two are different as lightness and darkness."

    On the eve of the Southern Baptist Convention in St. Louis last year, the Rev. Jerry Vines, a former denomination president, told several thousand delegates that Islam's Allah is not the same as the God worshipped by Christians. "And I will tell you Allah is not Jehovah, either. Jehovah's not going to turn you into a terrorist," Vines said.

    .......

    Bush, an evangelical Christian himself, has close ties to both Franklin Graham, who gave a prayer at his inauguration, and Southern Baptists, who are among his most loyal political supporters.

    Isaacs, who works for Franklin Graham, refused to comment about his boss' views of Islam, except to say, "most of Franklin's work is to the Muslim world and those are sincere acts of love, concern and compassion."

    In a written statement, Graham said: "As Christians, we love the Iraqi people, and we are poised and ready to help meet their needs. Our prayers are with the innocent families of Iraq, just as they are with our brave soldiers and leaders."

    .......
    As soon as they gain access to northern Iraq, teams will go, Kelly said, with plans of feeding up to 10,000 or more people a day.

    "The hope is that as the war front moves and the situation in the outlying areas improves, we'll be able to send mobile teams in.

    "Our understanding of relief ministries is that anytime you give a cup of cold water in the name of Jesus you've shared God's love in a real physical way. That also raises the question as to why you did that. When people ask you, you explain that it's because of the love of God that has been poured out into my life and I have a deep desire that you know that same love as well."
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  3. #333
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    Question

    Anyone starting to think we're getting a replay of Somalia here?

    Getting Saddam is pretty close in a goal sense to getting Aidid [sp?], when perhaps we should be getting evidence of WMDs to show the world, so as to vindicate the US/Coalition in the eyes of the world/garner support....also to rapidly do the humanitarian aid, as promised..... [which brings up the question of why did we explicitly include that promise? It didn't work for Somalia, either] and then there's the city fight to come.

    There are different aspects, sure- less micromanaging from the president, which is good, but maybe more from the CIA which might not be good.
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  4. #334
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    Originally posted by ZIM
    Anyone starting to think we're getting a replay of Somalia here?

    Getting Saddam is pretty close in a goal sense to getting Aidid [sp?], when perhaps we should be getting evidence of WMDs to show the world, so as to vindicate the US/Coalition in the eyes of the world/garner support....also to rapidly do the humanitarian aid, as promised..... [which brings up the question of why did we explicitly include that promise? It didn't work for Somalia, either] and then there's the city fight to come.

    There are different aspects, sure- less micromanaging from the president, which is good, but maybe more from the CIA which might not be good.
    Blackhawk Down anyone?

    Seriously, it will be hard to tell until the city fighting starts. Isn't there more firepower being brought to bear in Iraq than there was in Somalia though?
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  5. #335
    Originally posted by fa_jing
    In other words, East Timor splits from Indonesia = good
    Estonia, Latvia, Belarus etc. split from Russia/USSR = good
    Kashmir splits from India = good (not that I support terrorism)
    Yugoslavia disassociates = good
    West Bank and Gaza split from Israel = good (not that I support terrorism or compromising Israel's security)
    Kurdistan splits from Turkey and Iraq and ? = good
    Quebec splits from Canada = if they desire, good
    New York City splits from US = what me worry?
    Confederacy splits from US= ?

    I wondered where all the politics went. Just knew we hadn't discovered martial arts here!

    As I said before , we'll soon see. Actually, with all the atrocities, mostly by Saddam to his own people, we're seeing now. But I think the best (or worst, really) is yet to come. Sad and disgusting, but we're right to take him out.

  6. #336
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    Arrow joedoe

    Seriously, it will be hard to tell until the city fighting starts. Isn't there more firepower being brought to bear in Iraq than there was in Somalia though?
    I don't know, haven't seen comparisons. I don't think thats the point tho: I was reading the latest GRU report and they're noting the length of the resupply lines:
    "The extreme length of the resupply routes and the actions of the Iraqi reconnaissance units have created a new problem: the coalition command is forced to admit that it has no information about the conditions on the roads. Currently, as intercepted radio communications show, the coalition command is trying to establish the whereabouts of more than 500 of its troops that fell behind their units, departed with resupply convoys or were carrying out individual assignments. So far it was not possible to establish how many of these troops are dead, captured or have successfully reached other units."

    Also, the Iraqis are sending a mechanized division southwards, last heard...

    We charged in pretty fast, gotta regroup a bit. We're also sending in the 4th infantry [mechanized] soon, so.....
    Last edited by ZIM; 03-27-2003 at 04:12 PM.
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  7. #337
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    All I need to hear is that the Iraqis have been executing POW's and as far as I am concerned we can glass the whole fukking country.
    _______________
    I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you everyday.

  8. #338

    The Spectre of Al Qaeda?

    Hi Guys,

    Since we are all in this mother of all threads soup, I think this is an interesting development

    Al-Qaeda fighting with Iraqis, British claim (Sydney Morning News)
    March 28 2003, 9:41 AM




    Near Basra, Iraq: British military interrogators claim captured Iraqi soldiers have told them that al-Qaeda terrorists are fighting on the side of Saddam Hussein's forces against allied troops near Basra.

    At least a dozen members of Osama bin Laden's network are in the town of Az Zubayr where they are coordinating grenade and gun attacks on coalition positions, according to the Iraqi prisoners of war.

    It was believed that last night (Thursday) British forces were preparing a military strike on the base where the al-Qaeda unit was understood to be holed up.

    A senior British military source inside Iraq said: "The information we have received from PoWs today is that an al-Qaeda cell may be operating in Az Zubayr. There are possibly around a dozen of them and that is obviously a matter of concern to us."

    If terrorists are found, it would be the first proof of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington.

    The connection would give credibility to the argument that Tony Blair used to justify war against Saddam - a "nightmare scenario" in which he might eventually pass weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.

    On Wednesday Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, said the coalition had solid evidence that senior al-Qaeda operatives have visited Baghdad in the past.

    Rumsfeld said Saddam had an "evolving" relationship with the terror network.

    The presence of fanatical al-Qaeda terrorists would go some way to explaining the continued resistance to US and British forces in southern Iraq, an area dominated by Shi'ite Muslims traditionally hostile to

    Saddam's regime.

    Heavy fighting continued around the besieged city of Basra yesterday after British forces destroyed 14 Iraqi tanks which had struck out towards the Al Faw peninsula.

    Military commanders have decided against launching an attack on Basra because of fears the operation would result in a Stalingrad-style street battle.

    It is estimated the Iraqi military forces in the area have been reduced to 30 per cent fighting strength but have now embedded themselves within civilian buildings in the city.

    Armed raids have destroyed transmitters and taken state radio and television off the air in Basra and effectively cutting off its communications with Baghdad.

    British tanks from the 7th Armoured Brigade, the Desert Rats, could be sent into Basra if there is a sudden civilian uprising against Saddam's forces.

    Last night, forces around the city heard loud explosions as coalition helicopter gunships were sent into the area.

  9. #339

    OT - A Soldier's Letter to America

    Letter from Marine In Iraq 'To The Great City of Chicago'
    From Chicago Area Marine Fighting In Iraq

    POSTED: 9:39 a.m. CST March 25, 2003
    UPDATED: 10:15 a.m. CST March 27, 2003

    CHICAGO -- The following e-mail was sent to NBC5.com from Lance Cpl. Daniel Gomez, a U.S. Marine fighting the war in Iraq. Gomez is from Chicago and graduated from Lane Tech High School. After portions of his e-mail were read on air, many viewers wrote in and asked to see the whole text of the e-mail. Here it is.

    To The Great City Of Chicago:

    I just read your article on the Marine from Chicago that passed away in the helicopter crash, and I would like to tell you about another Marine from Chicago. My name is Daniel Gomez. I am 22 years old. I am a United States Marine.


    I am currently overseas in Kuwait and Iraq helping fight this war. This letter is just to inform you that there is someone from the great city of Chicago out here and that we need all your support.

    Post your response to LCPL Daniel Gomez' letter, and read responses from others
    Video: Interview with Daniel's family

    I was born and raised in the city of Chicago. I graduated from Lane Tech High High School in 1999. I lived on Racine Avenue and Taylor Street until April of 2000 when my parents, my siblings and I moved to 2400 Silvercreek Drive (I am the oldest of four).

    However strange it may sound, I do not know my neighbors or anyone in my neighborhood. Why, you might ask? A few months later -- July 25, 2000 -- I shipped out to Marine Corps boot camp.

    Since I've been in the Marine Corps, I have only been able to go home for about one week at a time. Once, I was only given 24 hours to go home for my little brother's 8th grade graduation. It might have only been 24 hours, but it was worth it. From March 10, 2001 to March 25, 2002 I was in Okinawa, Japan. I was with the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (31st MEU). It was hard being away from my family and friends. But it was worse when I did get to come home, for it was for a funeral. My girlfriend had passed away. I wish I could have called her my fiancee, but I never got a chance to ask her to marry me. I was waiting to come home to ask her.

    Right after, I was ordered to report to the 1st Force Service Support Group (1st FSSG) in Camp Pendleton, California. From April 2002 to January 2003, I was in Camp Pendleton preparing for our deployment. In late January 2003, my unit and I were finally in Kuwait.

    Now that a lot of Marines are out here helping to liberate Iraq, we are hearing of many antiwar protests across the country. Just a few moments ago, I heard of one in downtown Chicago.

    I understand a lot of Americans do not wish for war but unfortunately, it is needed. For instance, at first Saddam had stated that he did not have any missiles of mass destruction. But yet, for the past several nights, I have not gotten get much sleep because of missiles being launched at us -- some which contained unknown gases and chemicals.

    We were fortunate to have practiced our drills over and over that we all made it safely to our bomb shelters in time. Now we (the U.S. troops) need our fellow American's support behind us.

    We are all out here giving our lives for you all, so that you all may enjoy this great freedom that most take for granted. If you search deep down inside and still wish to protest, please do so, but do so peacefully.

    I once read, "It is the Marine, not the reporter, that gives us the freedom of the press. It is the Marine, not the poet, that gives us the freedom of speech. It is the Marine who defends the protesters' right to burn the Flag. It is the Marine who salutes the Flag, who serves under the Flags, and whose coffin is covered by the Flag."

    Is it not now time to demonstrate that we support our troops? Were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free.

    Just a few days ago, we had our first fallen American, a Marine. I pray we all come home safely. But I know that if I have to, I will give my life for this country and all it stands, and so will all the Marines that are out here with me. I also pray that we all return home soon, whether it is to San Diego, St. Louis, New York City, Franklin Park, Chicago or any other great city or town across the country.

    But I am prepared to be here as long as I have to. My Staff Sergeant, Staff Sergeant Godfrey G. Marille who is also out here -- his wife just had a beautiful baby girl. He has yet to see her, but I bet he can't wait to finally hold her in his arms.

    I know most of us won't be coming home to a hero's welcome. Nor are we asking for one. We don't consider ourselves heroes. We are only doing what is our duty to our country.

    If I am fortunate to return to United States alive, once I am able to go home, I will try my best to get to know my neighbors and as much of my neighborhood as I can. Especially because I have seen a few who fly the Marine Corps Flag high and proud over their homes. And to them, I would like to say thank you.

    Semper Fi,

    Lance Corporal Gomez, Daniel
    The World's Finest
    United States Marine Corps

  10. #340
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    Newspaper article

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...653806506.html

    How true do you think this is? I am not trying to stir up trouble, I just want an opinion on how true some of these stories might be and whether it might be a source of concern for people.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  11. #341

  12. #342

    What The Locals are saying...

    As coalition forces gain ground, Iraqi criticism of Saddam grows


    By Laurie Goering, Chicago Tribune
    European edition, Friday, March 28, 2003



    AZ ZUBAYR, Iraq — In the first days after coalition forces rolled through this dusty mud-walled town just south of Basra, Saddam Hussein had plenty of friends. Young men waved posters with his face for the cameras. Small boys yelled "Saddam! Saddam!" The few that criticized the regime did so in nervous whispers.

    Less than a week later, after a coalition raid netted the top Baath Party official in town for questioning and tanks took out some of the young men firing rocket-propelled grenades from the roadside, Saddam's public popularity is nose-diving.

    "All Iraqis want to be rid of this regime. We just can't say that," said Jasser, a stout and serious older man in a blue robe who showed up at a coalition medical center Thursday looking for antacid tablets for his wife.

    "Resistance is dangerous," he said. "When troops first came in they didn't demolish the party apparatus here, and that created problems. But now we feel more secure."

    The process of winning Az-Zubayr is proving a lesson for coalition troops as they move toward bigger objectives such as Basra and eventually Baghdad. Surgical strikes, aimed at political leaders as well as military targets, are being combined with humanitarian aid to ease the two biggest worries for local Iraqis: that coalition forces are simply an occupying force and that they aren't serious about taking out Hussein's regime.

    Iraqis "like to be on the right side, and finding out which is the right side is the hardest thing for them," said British Maj. Andy "Jock" Docherty, an Arabic-language translator working with troops of the Black Watch Regiment trying to pacify Az-Zubayr.

    But military and humanitarian successes are slowly winning over southern Iraqis. Several key members of the ruling Baath Party have been found hanged in the region in recent days, Docherty said, and coalition forces hope successes in the south may fuel uprisings to the north.

    "If we can crack a few nuts in Basra and Al Nasiriya, I think Baghdad could fall overnight with the right moves," Docherty predicted. If Iraqis are convinced the coalition is winning, they will attack the ruling party and "do the cleanup we can't and find the people we can't find."

    From the highway passing through it, Az-Zubayr doesn't look like much. Mud-walled compounds pock the desert, and concrete buildings and bunkers — part of former Iraqi military installations — line the road. Outside town, women gather drinking water from stagnant roadside pools. At its center, Az-Zubayr is a warren of increasingly narrow streets, where young men in black robes with red-and-white-checked headscarves gather, sometimes with assault rifles in their arms.

    Burned-out military trucks, hit by coalition airstrikes, sit on the edge of the main highway through town. But Iraqi militia members, now out of uniform, have fought back, firing rifles and rocket-propelled grenades at military vehicles passing through town. Even the red crosses painted on military ambulances bear bullet marks.

    On Monday, British military officials in Az-Zubayr got word that a leading Baath Party official was organizing the resistance. Early Tuesday they went to get him.

    At dawn they rammed tanks through the high wall surrounding the man's two-story house. As soldiers kicked open the front door, shots came from the building and a heavy firefight broke out. When it was over, 20 Iraqi fighters were dead or wounded, and the ruling-party leader was led away for interrogation.

    "He was certainly surprised," said Maj. Dougie Hay, a Black Watch commander who led the raid. "It was a demonstration we could mount successful operations in the area and show them they are dealing with a highly capable force."

    Coalition forces followed up with an assault on Iraqi soldiers holding a large military camp west of town. Under heavy fire, the remnants of the resistance fled or were killed, leaving behind hastily vacated buildings strewn with gas masks, military briefing books, boxes of grenades and lines of anti-aircraft guns hidden in hallways.

    Since then, British troops passing through the town's narrow streets have come under limited fire and have in turn taken out men launching rocket-propelled grenades. Little by little, Az-Zubayr is coming under control.

    That slowly building dominance, day by day, is changing the reception for coalition troops.

    "It's obvious people have been intimidated by the militias," Hay said. Now "most of the locals have been very pleased to see us."

    That was evident Thursday as British and U.S. soldiers held the town's first large-scale aid distribution outside the seized Iraqi military base. An attempt to hand out food Wednesday was aborted when a rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the base. But on Thursday women in black robes with blue crosses tattooed on their faces and clamoring young men and dusty children jostled to get their share of a container-load of bottled drinking water and food.

    Tanks accompanied the trucks of supplies into the camp and then formed a defensive ring around the distribution site. Truckloads of armed men also sat ready, their guns pointed over the crowds. But the distribution, which lasted more than three hours, ended without incident. One female U.S. soldier even got a shy kiss on the cheek from a little Iraqi boy.

    "We are afraid of Saddam's fighters. Things are better since you got here," Talia Sharfa, one black-robed woman in the crowd, told soldiers as she clutched her toddler daughter, Sara.

    A few Iraqis, injured in the skirmishes of recent days, also limped into the base Thursday to visit an ambulance-sized coalition mobile hospital brought to the site for the day. Wounds were cleaned and antibiotics handed out; residents who arrived with chronic health problems also got treatment.

    "There's been years here of not having appropriate treatment," said Capt. Sue Everington of the British general support medical regiment as she cleaned the ulcerated wound of a man whose foot was mangled in a 1986 car accident.

    Residents said the humanitarian assistance was much appreciated, but decisive military action_like that in Az-Zubayr_was even more urgently needed.

    U.S. forces "should bomb (the ruling party) wherever they are. Baghdad is the most important. When it's done everything will change," said Jasser, who agreed to an interview only out of the sight of others awaiting aid.

    He asked the question everyone in southern Iraq asks: "Will the Iraqi regime remain or not?"

    "If this coalition does not remove the regime, half of us will die," he said. "We will be killed just for talking to you. Saddam's eyes are all over here."

    He pointed toward an area he said remained a Baath Party stronghold in town.

    "The Iraqi regime kills civilians for going against it. If they even think you're against the regime they kill you," he said.

    Military force, like the raids in Az-Zubayr, he said, is key to making sure that threat is erased for good in this town and others in Iraq.

    "I suspect somebody will have to do more of those (raids)," agreed Sgt. John Hardy, a Scots Guards tank commander with the Black Watch. "That is what has worked."

  13. #343
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    Knife fight in a phone booth or Stalingrad in the sand? Salon magazine previews the likely Battle of Baghdad.

    To access this article you will have to view an American Express ad, which will give you access to Salon Premium articles.
    All my fight strategy is based on deliberately injuring my opponents. -
    Crippled Avenger

    "It is the same in all wars; the soldiers do the fighting, the journalists do the shouting, and no true patriot ever get near a front-line trench, except on the briefest of propoganda visits...Perhaps when the next great war comes we may see that sight unprecendented in all history, a jingo with a bullet-hole in him."

    First you get good, then you get fast, then you get good and fast.

  14. #344
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    Also, does it seem to anyone else like we've been played like suckers into creating long, underdefended supply lines stretching through hostile territory? I just can't see anything good coming of that.
    All my fight strategy is based on deliberately injuring my opponents. -
    Crippled Avenger

    "It is the same in all wars; the soldiers do the fighting, the journalists do the shouting, and no true patriot ever get near a front-line trench, except on the briefest of propoganda visits...Perhaps when the next great war comes we may see that sight unprecendented in all history, a jingo with a bullet-hole in him."

    First you get good, then you get fast, then you get good and fast.

  15. #345
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    It's clear you didn't read the article before responding, Stumblefist, so let me just call you an idiot and be done with it.

    What the hell does my toughness have to do with anything? Where did you get the idea that I'm anti-troops or pro-Saddam? Before the war was underway I thought it was a bad idea. Now that's it's on I want it fought and won as fast, smart and securely as possible (although I still harbor serious doubts that the long range outcome will be superior to leaving Saddam in power, bad as he is.)

    The chickenhawks in charge (the only high-up in the Bush admin with any real military background is Colin Powell, and he's being frozen out) said this would be fast. Now they're saying it will go on as long as it goes on. Troops that were meant to be residual peacekeepers are being sent into the thick of battle. Everyone but those like me who were skeptical from the start seems surprised that the Baathists, Republican Guard, and so on are fighting back, and fighting dirty. The dirtier they fight, the tougher it will be to win by fighting clean. The dirtier we fight, the more innocent Iraqis we'll kill and consequently potentially turn against us.

    War is hell and you don't go there without getting burnt, but you should put on some asbestos shorts anyway.
    All my fight strategy is based on deliberately injuring my opponents. -
    Crippled Avenger

    "It is the same in all wars; the soldiers do the fighting, the journalists do the shouting, and no true patriot ever get near a front-line trench, except on the briefest of propoganda visits...Perhaps when the next great war comes we may see that sight unprecendented in all history, a jingo with a bullet-hole in him."

    First you get good, then you get fast, then you get good and fast.

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