Truth about John Keehan (AKA Count Dante)

[sanjuro_ronin]

He would have been a great asset to our forum.

I think we have enough ASSets

[Shaolindynasty]

I think what makes him interesting is the mix of lies and truth. He made up an obviously fictitious background yet unlike the typical losers who do this now, Dante did some wild things that are documented like the "dojo wars" or robbing banks. Weird stuff

[cerebus]

The only 2 collectible "Count Dante, Deadliest Man Alive" t-shirts available for sale in the free world, so far as I'm aware. This link is for the size Large, I also have a Medium for sale....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=190221764270

[Buddy]

Troy,
With this you were an even bigger martial arts geek than me. I bow to you my brother.

[David Jamieson]

they should realy change that.

for one thing, he's dead and ofr another thing, he might be able to go for "one of the oddest men alive" but deadliest? No one is the deadliest except for the one who recently killed another!

[TenTigers]

if drop another ten lbs, I might be able to squeeze into it and look reel sexy this summer.



who am I kidding-more like 20 lbs.

[cerebus]

Troy,
With this you were an even bigger martial arts geek than me. I bow to you my brother.

Heh, heh, yeah, I know... I also have a near complete collection of the old black & white "Deadly Hands of Kung Fu" comic book/ magazine from the 70s, and have owned many of the old mail-order martial arts courses advertised in the comics & mags.

I've always been a bit of a martial arts history buff, so I love collecting all this stuff, but now I need to make enough money to get myself to the USKSF Lei Tai Championships in Maryland this summer, so stuff has got to be sold...

[cerebus]

... and the Black Dragon Fighting Society. Now available through Amazon.Com. Enjoy!

http://www.amazon.com/Deadliest-Man-...7593694&sr=1-1

[David Jamieson]

the original charalatan!

comic book ninja.

[cerebus]

But interestingly, unlike most charlatans & comic book ninjas, there was actually something to him. 5th degree black belt under Robert Trias, former Midewest director of the USKA, was in both the marine Corps and the Army. Weird, but interesting life...

[David Jamieson]

But interestingly, unlike most charlatans & comic book ninjas, there was actually something to him. 5th degree black belt under Robert Trias, former Midewest director of the USKA, was in both the marine Corps and the Army. Weird, but interesting life...

In the end what is his legacy but to be a laughing stock with a bad haircut who never built a system from which others could build themselves.

he is the definition of martial arts loser.

marine corps, army. Well there's literally millions of guys that have that stuff. It doesn't mete out as much unless he did something heroic? Did he?

So, what is the legacy here that gives him any value to a modern martial artist?

I mean, he can serve as an example of what not to do I suppose, but then, there are myriad examples of that.

I certainly wouldn't hold him up as anything more than a weird joke. Completely irrelevant to martial arts in the most real sense of the word. Just like the x-ray glasses he would position himself with on a page he was fake as fake can be.

[cerebus]

So, what is the legacy here that gives him any value to a modern martial artist?

Ha ha! Here are some quotes from Keehan that got him in trouble with the martial arts community when he first broke these "revelations" back in the '60s.

"In karate, and most Oriental self-defense arts, there is an over-emphasis on form practice, kata (dances), terminology and history, all of which have little to do with the development of effective stree defense- which should be the goal of the students."

"The bulk of karate, kenpo, and gung-fu stances are too strict or tensed, so as to restrict smooth and fast movements.... a boxer who uses a much more natural stance has much better footwork..."

"...most fistic arts are too robotic appearing and unrealistic. Most Japanese karateists remind one of the old time boxers with their crude stumbling movements. I believe the main reason for this is due to the fact that there is no professional karate (by this I mean full-contact knock-out karate); the participants are too wrapped up in style rather than effectiveness."

"Another serious fault in the present-day karate movements is the fact that the self-defense forms or techniques practiced are practically non-moving and performed from near-stationary positions. It is quite easy to hit or defend against a stationary target or an attacker who attacks with one punch and stops."

"The striking effectiveness of exponents of gung-fu, karate, tai chi chuan, etc, is highly overexaggerated... If the striking techniques of these systems were so effective I am quite sure the many thousands of professional boxers throughout the world would be using these techniques, since fighting happens to be their business. There is no doubt that a boxer can easily out-punch a karateist."

And much, much more. Sounds obvious these days, right? But when Keehan publicly printed these comments and others, people believed in the "one-strike kill", that these arts were "too deadly" for contact competition. Keehan was the first to call Bullsh!t on such ideas and to promote realistic training. When he held his first no-holds-barred tournament in 1967, the martial arts community was outraged, positive that people would be killed or crippled. In fact, no one was even injured very badly, but Keehan had p!ssed off too many people by then, so he reveled in his role as an outcast.

Interesting how big the whole "no-holds-barred' tournament scene has become since then, eh?

[cerebus]

And before anyone gets too serious or bent out of shape about this subject (amazing how this guy riles people up even now), I didn't write this book to glorify Keehan. I wrote it because, like it or not, he's a part of American pop culture and a bigger part of US martial arts history than many people want to admit.

There's still discussion about him today, but there's also alot of BS out there. I wrote this mainly to set some facts straight and give a more balanced view of the man, neither demonizing nor glorifying him, just showing him to have been as human as anyone (in spite of his theatrics).

[David Jamieson]

Ha ha! Here are some quotes from Keehan that got him in trouble with the martial arts community when he first broke these "revelations" back in the '60s.

"In karate, and most Oriental self-defense arts, there is an over-emphasis on form practice, kata (dances), terminology and history, all of which have little to do with the development of effective stree defense- which should be the goal of the students."

"The bulk of karate, kenpo, and gung-fu stances are too strict or tensed, so as to restrict smooth and fast movements.... a boxer who uses a much more natural stance has much better footwork..."

"...most fistic arts are too robotic appearing and unrealistic. Most Japanese karateists remind one of the old time boxers with their crude stumbling movements. I believe the main reason for this is due to the fact that there is no professional karate (by this I mean full-contact knock-out karate); the participants are too wrapped up in style rather than effectiveness."

"Another serious fault in the present-day karate movements is the fact that the self-defense forms or techniques practiced are practically non-moving and performed from near-stationary positions. It is quite easy to hit or defend against a stationary target or an attacker who attacks with one punch and stops."

"The striking effectiveness of exponents of gung-fu, karate, tai chi chuan, etc, is highly overexaggerated... If the striking techniques of these systems were so effective I am quite sure the many thousands of professional boxers throughout the world would be using these techniques, since fighting happens to be their business. There is no doubt that a boxer can easily out-punch a karateist."

And much, much more. Sounds obvious these days, right? But when Keehan publicly printed these comments and others, people believed in the "one-strike kill", that these arts were "too deadly" for contact competition. Keehan was the first to call Bullsh!t on such ideas and to promote realistic training. When he held his first no-holds-barred tournament in 1967, the martial arts community was outraged, positive that people would be killed or crippled. In fact, no one was even injured very badly, but Keehan had p!ssed off too many people by then, so he reveled in his role as an outcast.

Interesting how big the whole "no-holds-barred' tournament scene has become since then, eh?

impromptu scuffle ups weer happening long before beardbangstachefro guy came along. and he said nothing new. Mas Oyama had addressed pretty much everything you quoted him as saying for instance. Now that guy po'd a lot of karate people. lol

also, I don't think beardbangsstachefro guy had anything at all to do with the popularity of nhb/ufc type stuff at all. he was completely forgotten by the time that started getting organized and quite frankly, Tank abbot and the gracies brought that about more than anyone else. lol

the guy is barely a foonote in regards to real martial arts and especially in context to todays martial arts which are 6 bodies and two sets of head and shoulders above everything this guy ever did...which was mostly selling nonsense on the back of comic books and running a little dojo and getting into a fight.

He is unknown for any contributions he might have made because it's obvious what his focus was:

a)his hair

b) his tight ass bell bottoms

c) having people see him in teh same light as bruce lee

Not too mention, his biggest fan and lackey is that ass wipe ashida kim. more laughable nonsense.

[cerebus]

Well there ya go. Exactly the reason I wrote this book. Because what you wrote there is what most people (clearly including yourself) think they "know" about Keehan. This book gets past the surface & exposes the truth that you and many others would never know otherwise. I do find it amazing though how, especially as regards Keehan, many people prefer to be ignorant and believe a distorted image rather than to have facts or truth.

And as for ashida kim, well no one can help who tries to hijack their name for their own purposes after they're dead. Kim just tried to use Keehan's notoriety to sell his own BS.