ATTN: Old Jong

[ZIM]

Okaaaayyy... So exactly HOW MANY women have guilty fantasies of being whipped & stuff by men dressed up as frumpled french Canadians...? Face it, dude, yer jealous...


[really, not a welcome remark... call Bush a Nazi if you must call out names, he's paid enough for it...]

[old jong]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
R5A:
He's not calling YOU a Nazi. He's comparing the behavior of some soldiers with the unthinking, blind following of orders that Nazi soldiers did. Many people believe the military turns soldiers into this type of automaton. What are you going to do, challenge all of them also?

Thanks for understanding Knifefighter!...I certainly don't expect our friend R5A to do the same.
Hey Red!...I have to deal each and every days at work with obsessive/compulsive minds.That's enough! I used to like you better when you were playing groupie to Carl Deschiara . Now you are a crusader of the holy war against evil. Good for you .Enjoy and don't forget to wipe off that white foam coming out of your mouth.

[Internal Boxer]

Red Angel

Mate you seriously need to chill out, by threatening another human being with violence is a very very sad thing, just when the matter in question relates to views and opinions no matter how extreme they may appear.

When I was a climbing arborist (tree surgeon), there was inevitably instances where we were felling trees that resulted in members of the public appearing from nowhere to give us grief, all they saw was a tree being felled and got very emotional at its loss, I have told people I was just "doing my job" which on more than one occasion I was told "You are just like the Nazi guards at Auchwitzh, just doing your job". And this was a personal insult, which I did not take any offence to as I could see her point of view and understood her upset.

I do not agree with Old Jong's opinion but I understand how he feels. Red Angel your attitude is like a child having a tantrum, offer objective reasoning do not let your anger or hate control you, this will lead to a troubled life.

[Vapour]

I once read a comment by a Catholic priese whose name I can't remember (let assume his name as John Smith). He said that when he introduce himself as a priest, lot of people hate him or like him just for him being a priet but none of them know about him as a person, John Smith. So in this sence, someone calling you a Nazi was definitely unfair not that I approve of your Nazi like response.

As of German in WWII, there were large number of German soliders who were excecuted by its own force.

[old jong]

I have to admit that the term "nazi" applied more to a certain regime than to individuals.Most german soldiers were just like any country soldiers,following orders out of fear or training. Some of them were enjoying and advocating killing innocent people from a certain culture or anybody in their path.Those were the real nazis. They were blindly following Himler propaganda and believed that they only,possessed the truth and were superior to the rest of the world.

[BeiKongHui]

r5a if you don't want to be compared to a NAZI then don't act like one.

Also, I must agree with OJ. These obsessive streaks you go on are disturbing. Have you considered medication.


Also, to those of you who claim the military is fighting "for my freedom" in Iraq....puh-leeze. My own government the creators of the Patriot Acts 1 & 2 are far more of a threat to my "freedom" than the Iraqi's. If you're going to support Bush at least have the intellectual honesty to give resaons based in reality.

[red5angel]

Old Jong, my offer stands man, out of my pocket you come on down for a little visit.

and OJ, you need to do some research on the difference between NAZI soldiers and Regular german army in WWII to get your facts straight pal. Don't go mouthing off about something you apprently don't really understand.

You know what enrages me OJ, and everytime I think about it my blood boils. guys like you probably wouldn't open their trap in public or in front of someone when it really counts. Most of the time I can ingnore your special brand of ignorance but you my freind take the cake, sitting on your fat old ass at homemaking comments about things you have no comprhension of. you need to go back to the wing chun forum where the majortiy of the people sit around fooling themselves into thinking they are epxerts at something, you can feel right at home wallowing in that ignorance and misundertanding.

[@PLUGO]

Also, to those of you who claim the military is fighting "for my freedom" in Iraq....puh-leeze. My own government the creators of the Patriot Acts 1 & 2 are far more of a threat to my "freedom" than the Iraqi's. If you're going to support Bush at least have the intellectual honesty to give resaons based in reality.

...well said BeiKongHui.

RED... it seems you're slipping into broad stroked generalizations:

you need to go back to the wing chun forum where the majortiy of the people sit around fooling themselves into thinking they are epxerts at something,

how different is that statement from the one you originally took offence to?
Stripping away the particulars...

wing chun forum/soldiers/generalized group

sit around fooling themselves/They follow orders/what they do that they shouldn't

wallowing in that ignorance/Just like the nazis did/this is why they are not like "me/we"

[@PLUGO]

um.. huh?

reason for what?

reason to support BUSH?

we should support BUSH because we where born in a country with a bill of rights?

I'm not sure I understand your meaning...

[apoweyn]

Oh, for pity's sake, people. Red5Angel is NOT acting like a nazi. Good christ. I'm absolutely terrified at the casual manner in which people are slinging that word around in this conversation.

Red5 is riled up. Maybe too much so. But how dare anyone compare that to genocide?!

As to the original point: Yes, many 'nazis' were just following orders. So soldiers have done from the very beginning of an organized military. The horrifying thing about the nazi regime was not that soldiers followed orders, but that they followed THOSE PARTICULAR orders. Genocide.

To claim that there's some similarity between that and Iraq is, in my (admittedly uninformed) opinion, blatantly unfair. But it's Old Jong's right. And, Red5Angel, as much as I would be outraged at the comparison myself, it's probably best to just roll with it.


Stuart B.

[apoweyn]

Vapour,

How childish. Only thing it show is that you haven't got a brain to argume rationally.

Slinging the term 'nazi' around casually ain't exactly reasoned debate either. Shame you couldn't find some alternative in this post:

So in this sence, someone calling you a Nazi was definitely unfair not that I approve of your Nazi like response.

Stuart B.

[BeiKongHui]

Personally, I think Bush is an idiot. The fact that I will be around to post a month from now after stating that publicly should be all the "reason based in reality" you need.

Again that has SQUAT do to with Bush's war for oil in Iraq. Not to mention that the biggest threat to my GOD GIVEN (not government given) right to call Bush a simian fool is under a threat bt the Republican administration not Saddam.

r5A-I'd be happy to sub for OJ. You've talked quite enough of your ultra nationalistic goobledegook to our French Canadian brother. Maybe you need to find a new "kick" to obsess over.

[BeiKongHui]

I agree the term Nazi has been used too loosely in the past. However, these days it seems to be a term that actually fits a certain segment of the American population. Being a fascist doesn't mean that you automatically start killing Jews.

Fascist/Nazi POV's are expoused by many on the right such as the "love it or leave it", scape goating (liberal, welfare queen, etc.), anti diversity, total allegience to the state, Using the Big Lie (such as the liberal media, the Iraqi's caused 9/11, etc.).

You know there are people in Europe that have bumper stickers that show Bush & Hitler and say something to the effect of "Different face, Different place, Same ol Sh!t." the fact that people who saw Hitler up close and lived through the Nazi era feel like that about the President Select indicates there is a serious, serious problem.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Design Sifu

I'm not sure I understand your meaning...

It's not that hard to understand really. The first thing you need to do, is to quit putting words into peole's mouths and making up statements for your agenda. In other words, I challenge you to produce any piece of text where I even allude to the statement that I support George W. Bush.

Once we can get that matter settled, we can throw aside the fact that the diplomacy leading up to this may be one of the biggest blunders ever made by a US President. We can throw away the fact that the main reason we are at war now is that Bush wanted this war, and he was gonna have it no matter what. We can put aside the fact that Oil is a big motivator in this war.

So let's also put aside the fact that Saddam Hussein is a monster. We will put aside that he has destroyed whole villages with chemical weapons immediately following the 1st Gulf War. We can put aside the torture chambers, the rape rooms, the constant intimidation, etc.

So now, after looking at the above and putting it aside we can come to the following conclusion. The situation we are in is NOT black and white. There is no one man good, other man bad going on. There is no right and wrong. There's just this huge gray area in the middle that no one really wants to touch. People either eat everything the Pro-War side spits out, or they eat everything the Anti-War feeds them and spits it out. spoon fed ideology is very easy, even if it makes someone a sheep.

So let's look at what remains, that is the deciding factor. First question that remains.

After this war, will the Iraqi people be in a better position than they were under Saddam Hussein? I think yes. But that's not the point of this post.

The point of this post is that no matter who is right or wrong, our American Troops are out there fighting for us. They are fighting so that my children will not be the ones fighting. They are fighting to remove the threat of Saddam helping other groups attack US soil. They are fighting to protect us.

I support that. I also support the American troops that are out there fighting for that. I also support the fact that you can bad mouth the US as much as you want and not have to fear the consequences.

[apoweyn]

BeiKongHui,

Fair enough. But that particular comparison isn't what I'm objecting to. I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to say whether that very unfortunate comparison is also very accurate.

Nor do I dispute the existence of genuine fascists. What I'm objecting to is the slinging of the word at Red5Angel based on his taking offense. People are saying he's acting like a nazi simply because he's overreacting to Old Jong's comments. THAT'S not fascism. And the fact that people feel that it's an appropriate use of that term is kind of appalling, given the actual atrocities perpetrated (and perhaps still being perpetrated) by such groups.

The day that crying 'nazi' becomes an acceptable debate tactic will be a very sad day indeed.


Stuart B.