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Thread: Prison MA (Jailhouse Rock, etc.)

  1. #1
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    Prison MA (Jailhouse Rock, etc.)

    This subject was discussed on another forum. I just wanted to share an old Black Belt Magazine article.

    From BLACK BELT MAGAZINE, July, 1974: "Karate in Prison: Menace, or Means of Spiritual Survival?" by Anne Darling and James Perryman, p. 21: Another ex-inmate says the first time he ever saw a karate technique was in Coxsacki, a New York prison, in 1948. "The different prisons had and still have their own fighting styles," he says. They were prison martial arts, not traditional styles. In fact, Kid Gavilan (world welterweight boxing champion, 1951-54) used a Coxsacki variation, and Floyd Patterson's peekaboo style was a Coxsacki variation, too. Because of limited space in prison, we learned wall-fighting techniques. Then a lot of former G.I.s in the joint had learned hand-to-hand combat - they came home, styled it, made it hip, and gave it soul." Miguel "Miky" Pinero, while an inmate of Sing-Sing, wrote a play called "Short Eyes" about the killing of a sex offender in a house of detention. The play is now a smashing success at the Public Theater in New York. Pinero describes his introduction to prison martial arts: "The first thing I did in the joint was to check out the style and learn to fight with a home piece - somebody from my neighborhood on the streets. I learned the Woodbourne shuffle, an evasion technique that first was used in the joint at Woodbourne and got passed around. Then I learned wall-fighting, and somebody taught me the Comstock style. The Comstock style, named for an upstate New York prison, involves what one inmate calls "the use of dirty fighting techniques." The object is to lure an opponent into thinking he is going to get a "fair one - then go for a quick, sneak kick to the ankle, kneecap, or family jewels." (End of Black Belt article)
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  2. #2
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    JHR link

    This is something WC people in the States shoudn't sleep on. These guys are really good and the techniques in some JHR is very similar to WC, (ie. trapping and simultaneous blocking and striking). They have an advantage of fighting for real in prison where their lives are at stake. Here is a link to some info on it. I have seen them fight fro real in NYC. They learn how to spit razorbaldes hidden under their tongues between their fingers and comense to swing at you limbs or face yelling out the number of stitches you will get. Most WC people will probably not take this seriously. All I say is don't get caught out there. JHR is widespread.
    Phil

    http://www.osmalandrosdemestretouro..../generic.html;
    Last edited by Phil Redmond; 04-07-2003 at 07:30 AM.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  3. #3
    There is some good stuff on JHR aka 52 blocks here
    http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/52.html

    Tony
    Attack, attack, attack -- come at your target from every possible direction and press until his defenses overload. Never give him time to recover his balance: never give him time to counter.
    Stover

    http://www.members.shaw.ca/tmanifold

  4. #4
    I've never heard about the razor thing, but what I've seen of jailhouse is vicious. There's a version of it in the south that's known as "knockin and kickin"
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #5
    not entirely the same topic,but there is a wck article on the
    net [somewhere],where a prison guard talks about using
    his wck against the inmates.[when needs be,obviously].he
    goes on to say,that many inmates know some ma,and wck
    is good for the restricted area limits in a cell or prison.and
    the inmates seem to semi -respect the man.

  6. #6
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    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  7. #7
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    What I find significant about all this is that it shows where fighting arts come from and where they develop -- among the people doing the fighting. In other words, they don't develop among the gentry or the scholars (theoreticians) but among the folks that use it day-in and day-out, soldiers, prisoners, ruffians, etc. (the fighters). The people (actors) of the Red Boats were among the lowest class, cavorting with criminals, prostitutes, etc.

    And it also shows how fighting arts develop -- not in one fell-swoop, but drawing on many sources that different people have *found* useful in fighting, that someone else "steals" for themselves, etc. and dropping those things that don't work. In other words, by a natural process of evolution (development) over time.

  8. #8
    One of my most senior advanced students (about 12 years now)...and with a background in kickboxing before he came to my school...has been working on Rikers Island for many years now (at least 10 years).

    Rikers, as every New Yorker knows, is a prison.

    His name is Myron Young...35 years old, stands 6'2" and weighs 205. In fact...it's Myron who you will see with me on the first set of videos I'll be posting within the next few days.

    Myron teaches art to the inmates at Rikers, as there are many prisoners incarcerated who are still at high school age - and by state law they must be given an education while incarcerated.

    Can't begin to tell you how many times Myron has come to class with a new story of...(or asking advice about)...various kinds of attacks he's been subjected to in the classroom, or out in a hallway somewhere.

  9. #9
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    Funny you should say that Terence. I was fairly new at WC when I first heard of Jail House boxing and 52 Blocks. I used to watch the guys in Brooklyn who just got out of Rikers Island (Prison) box in the streets bare knuckle. They would do what at the time I thought looked like WC. They had paks saus, simultaneous blocks/strikes, shin kicks, elbows, headbutts, and knees. They even had element of CLF diagonal (pow choi) strikes. Like you said, they learned out of neccessity. No games or theory but by trial and error. Not that theory isn't important. ; Anyway, I took one of my WC bros to the "hood" because he didn't believe they could be effective without "formal training. Long story short he used to come to Brooklyn on weekends to learn.
    Phil
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  10. #10
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    Victor, remember Jesse? He was a CO at Rikers. Did your student tee you stories of who the inmates would hide razor blades in pockets they cut inside their jaws? They were able to spit a razor form their mouth between their fingers and slap someone across the face with the razor. There are still underground Pitt fights in some neighborhoods that would make UFC and NHB look civil.
    Phil
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  11. #11
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    Victor,
    That is very interesting. Does your student use more techs. that he has found to be more effective than others. It would seem that he would employ more trapping skills for controlling the inmates... or maybe he just pounds em?

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Airdrawndagger
    Victor,
    That is very interesting. Does your student use more techs. that he has found to be more effective than others. It would seem that he would employ more trapping skills for controlling the inmates... or maybe he just pounds em?
    If a CO hits a prisoner he can be charged with assualt. The guys I know that work inside learn grappling moves so they can restrain instead of strike. One of ny old TWC bros got many charges against him for "defending" himself against prisoners in Rikers.
    PR
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  13. #13
    My opinion is if they weren't trying to fight the guards...they wouldnt be hit. Better yet, if they weren't such scum, they wouldn't be there to begin with.

    Screw em. I have no sympathy for anyone in jail, they put themselves there.

    I think guards should have full authority to do whatever is necessary to keep themselves safe from harm against people who obviously are not civil.

    That's just crazy that they can file assault if the guard chooses to strike to defend himself. Just ridiculous.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  14. #14
    Just something I wanted to ask about Phil, and please don't think I'm trying to start anything...

    But this is a fighting system (not a martial art because there's no art involved) that was developed in jail, and then based on what I read in some of those JPGS, only taught to african americans?

    Isn't that sort of...racist and demeaning since it was something that was developed in jail? The guy in the article mentioned he wouldnt teach it to the cops because he said the cops will turn it on them...or something to that effect.

    52 blocks is just straight up street fighting developed pragmatically over years of experiment in prison and on the streets of NY I guess?
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Vankuen
    Just something I wanted to ask about Phil, and please don't think I'm trying to start anything...
    But this is a fighting system (not a martial art because there's no art involved) that was developed in jail, and then based on what I read in some of those JPGS, only taught to african americans?
    Isn't that sort of...racist and demeaning since it was something that was developed in jail? The guy in the article mentioned he wouldnt teach it to the cops because he said the cops will turn it on them...or something to that effect.
    52 blocks is just straight up street fighting developed pragmatically over years of experiment in prison and on the streets of NY I guess?
    I don't think it could be classified as a martial art in the traditional sense. So you're right there. It's a fighting system like you said.
    It's always good to know what's out there though. You never want to get caught off guard.
    Capoiera (which is from Angola), was only taught to Africans in Brazil at one time. It was their only form of protection at the time. It just so happens that the majority of inmates in the U.S. prison system are minorities. The people that had a need to survive in NYC jails are most likely Puerto Ricans, blacks, etc. So I don't think racism had anything to do with it.
    PR
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

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