Question about groin strikes_no trolls

[apoweyn]

Robin,

Is it a lack of respect for me? Or is it just being a bonehead? Or is there more to it than lack of respect? They appear to respect each other enough to not go there. It's just unnerving that they do it to me exclusively, not each other.

I imagine it's less a lack of respect and more a lack of awareness. As guys, we know getting kicked in the jumblies hurts (though it's not always incapacitating). But we have no such knowledge of the experience of being women. So we assume that 'no jumblies = no pain = game on.'

To clarify, I don't assume that personally. I can't really imagine kicking a women in the groin deliberately. But if they are opting to do so, that's my guess at their reasoning.

If it really bothers you, though, ask. Ask someone there you trust. "What gives? Why me?" When they say, "you don't have any jumblies", you say, "Have you ever asked me whether that makes the difference?"


Stuart B.

[No_Know]

Only female? Might be their chance to cop a feel-ish

They might not understand. They think you don't have their equipment, there's not anything to be hurt.

They don't know where your stuff is and want to get close but accidentally too close.


SaMantis said some good stuff. You might should announce off limit things to your partner before you start the activity...No contact to the groin (perhaps even, mark, my groin starts here).

If you are letting them strike to feel what a complete range strike is like cup that area with your hand. Move the hand down and out some stiffen. Let them hit your hand lightly. Or drop your gloved hand so they can hit with more force and still have the right height and placement (with your groin moved back or side or out of the way, with your upper body as much in place as you can.

There are sacred things. We are trained to do or not do. Women's breasts are more sacred/sensitive then male breast. ~

Dont touch a woman's privates. A male hurts when hit in the groin...almost superstitions perhaps.

On your technique Robinf, the target is below the pelvis (within an inc below). Of the triplets of that area of a male the Pain comes from getting the identical twins.

[Guile]

They definitly need cups now!

[Oso]

Robin, this is just my opinion and the environment I try to create in my school. What I said before still applies and this situation should probably be taken up with your teacher if you are that uncomfortable with it and let her/him correct anything he feels is wrong.

Having said that, I try to create a somewhat genderless atmosphere. I pay attention to specific areas of both anatomies that go on the list of 'don't hit hard'. Eyes, Throat, Ear(drums), spine, sides of knee, bladder, spleen, kidneys, groin(both genders), lower abdominal area on women. I talk to women about the fact that it is going to be very difficult to not get hit in the chest and recommend a women's chest protector. Every woman I know who has tried one on has said they would rather occasionally get hit in the chest than wear one to spar. If they are over 18 that is their choice. I've never met a woman who has tried on one of the women's groin protectors.

I tell all my students that we are here to explore the martial arts and that there will be a lot of physical contact to personal areas of the body but that I expect everyone to be adults and very matter of fact about it. I let them know that I am going to be very matter of fact but not crude in talking about the body. If I am working with a new female student I let her know when I am about to touch or grab her waist or hips but after she as been there awhile I don't feel a need to if she gotten comfortable with me. I am just adjusting her the same way I adjust any of the male students. My limited experience is that it is very hard to get male students to forget that they are working with a female and do what they are training to do and not worry about it. My girlfriend is training with me and she and a male student started about the same time and have been steady training partners and she told me he kept freaking out and apologizing profusely everytime he came in contact with her chest. She had to keep telling him that it was ok and they would not be able to train the way they were supposed to be if he kept wigging out ever time he touched her 'teat' (her words) I think he freaked out when she said that too. But, he's gotten over it.

It sounds like you maybe suspect that there is some other intent from your fellow students. If so, talk to your teacher. If something else is going on he neads to have a discussion with his boys. If nothing else is going on besides training then you might need to figure out why you feel wierd about it.

again, just my .02, good luck.

[Oso]

I would consider this disrespectful. I would think a statement of the rules is in order. If this doesn't work - make a few boys cry.

LOL, that's the spirit. If you can score on them it would surely get their attention.


But, it depends on the rules of the school. If the groin is a fair target in sparring then it should be fair on anyone.

[Oso]

If it really bothers you, though, ask. Ask someone there you trust. "What gives? Why me?" When they say, "you don't have any jumblies", you say, "Have you ever asked me whether that makes the difference?"

another good point


plus, I just like it when Ap says 'jumblies'

[Guile]

Originally posted by Oso



another good point


plus, I just like it when Ap says 'jumblies'

Never heard of that before but its funny and non-vulgar

[ZIM]

Good discussion.

WRT contact with breasts, a female WC-er I know sometimes actually forces a male to touch her breasts in order to get past this hang up in chi sao. She's a little older, so maybe this is a factor, I can't say. But the point is that in chi sao a refusal to touch can get in the way of proper learning for both. Its interesting because that sometimes throws the guy off his game...

WRT contact with groin- it hasn't come up for me, so I'll just follow the conversation. My $.02 is that they shouldn't be doing this, and I know I wouldn't- thats a court case waiting to happen. It does seem overtly sexual.

[guohuen]

Carefull with the groin shots. It's an overated target. I was leaving a PX on Ft Lewis one evening with two cases of beer and a guy about 6'6" 250lbs. stepped out of the bushes and demanded my money and beer. I let the beer slide down my leg to the grass hoping too many bottles wouldn't be broken and kicked this guy really hard in the daddy button. Apparently he went into shock immedietly and other than being knocked backwards it didn't faze him because he charged me. I sidestepped his advance and it took six hard strikes to the head to knock him down. Not a fun experience. Could have ended badly for me.

[Guile]

Woh, yea good thing you got in those shots
Maybe he had little ones

[apoweyn]

Oso,

plus, I just like it when Ap says 'jumblies'

I laughed out loud the first time I heard my friend Brian use the term. Been using it ever since. It's not vulgar. It's not clinical. It's perfect.

[Oso]

guohen, I'd a let him have the two cases of beer. He would have had his hands full then.

I agree, the groin is overated as a strike target. The biggest benifit is as a distractionary technique just because most guys will certainly move to protect them out of instinct thus dropping at least one hand...unless of course he's good and covers with a leg and then you have a hand or foot out of position...but then you could...then he could...but...

hoping too many bottles wouldn't be broken

and I see you're a classy beer drinker

[guohuen]

Well I am now. Back then it was Oly bottles at 4.00 a case. I wasn't buying. I was flying.

[Robinf]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, guys.

Ap,
lol at jumblies.

I did ask one of the guys, who did the same thing last night, why he punched me there, and he turned completely red and said he just wasn't thinking and apologized.

I asked this question to get more of a general sense of why a guy would do that when sparring. I've come to trust many of your opinions and see that it probably is just thoughtlessness. I don't know what goes on in the male head, so I have to count on the ideas/opinions of the guys out there I know.

Last year, we had a couple of guys leave because I spoke to sifu about this happening and he talked to them. They left. I don't want to keep driving people away. That's why I came here to feel out what was the general male view of that.

Oso,
Sounds like you're doing fine in your school. I don't think twice about chest shots--either giving them or taking them. I don't wear the protectors, either (except in sport TKD where it's mandatory to wear the shield). I've actually gotten used to getting hit there and it doesn't bother me.


Do you guys have a lot of female students in your kwoons?

And thanks, No_Know, for the technique cues.

[Former castleva]

This reminds me of having read how women used to be kept out of competing in olympics in slightly older times-
It was said that they cannot participate because of possible reproductive organ related injuries...
Well things are different these days,I do not remember exactly if this had to do with specific sports or something.