Trapping

[Ben Thompson]

In my past few years of studing JKD I'd have to say the trapping is one of, if not the most, valuable thing I have come to understand.

I find it very effective, partly because few people know of it, and most people learn the "block and strike" method of counterattack, which can be easily overcome by even the most mediocre level of hand immobilization.

So my question is, how valuable do you people feel trapping is, and are there any other forms of hand trapping besides the widely taught: Pak Sao, Lop Sao, Jut Sao, Joa Soa, and Huen Soa?

Anyones insight would be much appreciated.

[pseudoswitch]

Hi Ben,

I would have to agree with you regarding the usefulness of trapping, being a wing chun player There are many other hand techniques besides the ones you mentioned in wing chun, have you ever trained in it? I think it definatley helps if one trains in wing chun before moving on to JKD. Supplimenting JKD with wing chun on the other hand, might be problematic with regards footwork and structure.

[Ben Thompson]

So far I have only tried learning trapping from books and videos, then I see if they work for me during sparring.

Is there such a thing as trapping with the legs in Wing Chun? I do this while trapping with my hands and push my opponents leg back, and or manipulate his knee joint with my shin. I have found this to be most effective against opponents with low mobility.

[Black Jack]

I think in some schools you can find trapping to become superfluous. A lot of arts use trapping or elements thereof. Kali, Silat, Kun Tao, to name just a very, very few.

Trapping just means to hold long enough to hit.

[fa_jing]

Huen sao and Jou sow are not traps, they are evasive/circular hand movements.

Lan sao (bar arm) and inside Lop Sao are good ones.

[yenhoi]

Huen sau can be a trap! Cmon.

A good example of a leg trap is stepping on your opponents foot,

Like BJ said, many arts train what would be considered trapping, nearly all "arts" IMO.

Is there such a thing as trapping with the legs in Wing Chun?

Sure. Most WCK systems teach "chi gerk" after you get familiar with "chi sau." Same Tan, bong, and fook structures , just with your legs.

A good place on the net to learn about leg and foot sectoring would be the many many Judo sites, such as www.judoinfo.com

[fa_jing]

how huen sao trap you say?

we have a huen/rear and tan/front double block, but that's still not a trap

against a wrist grab you can immobilize his fingers with your free hand, and huen sao the grabbed hand around and bend his wrist at an incredibly uncomfortable angle, but the huen sao just sets up what will be a joint lock, with a downward motion.

don't see it

[fa_jing]

OTOH, with the huen sao you can move his arm around, so that all he can do is retract it example you jom sao then flow around into a huen sao - controlling the movement of his arm, I guess that could be considered a trap but I don't think of it that way - I think of a trap as a pin or a grab. Otherwise, you'd have to include gwaat sao (wiping block) as a trap.

[yenhoi]

Anytime you restrict/control the movement/motion of your opponents hands/arms/shoulders/hips/knees/shin/ankle/feet, you are trapping, or whatever you want to call it, once your in control of the obstacle, you win (strike!)

Strickly WCK wise, in the 3rd form there is a long arm clear to fook to huen to pak sequence that easily illustrates the trapping power of a huen, even though I guess you are acually 'using' a pak or gum to actually do the 'pin.'

...and gwaat sau should be considered a trap, both your arms are above his and you are feeding on his centerline and face.

[JKogas]

Have you guys practiced trapping against someone skilled in clinching? Do you see the two as separate? What are your views regarding this?

-John

[yenhoi]

Do you see the two as separate?

Not really, much like the difference between a hammer fist and a cross. Trapping and clinching are the same range.

Different 'techniques.'

[JKogas]

I think of trapping as being just a TINY bit further out than clinching. That's at least in the "classical" sense of the word (reference point). Trapping (though not always) is almost an eblow's length from your opponent, where clinching (as if you have an underhook) is chest to chest with almost NO space between you.

Trapping (as in COMPOUND trapping) and the wrestling clinch are two different animals (if the trapping is trained classically). Many people still practice trapping in the classical sense while others practice clinching from the wrestling perspective. This is the difference that I'm referring to.

Any thoughts?

-John

[fa_jing]

I think of clinching as having at least one hand in contact with his body, or else my shoulder in contact with his body. Trapping is usually hand to arm contact. Trapping both arms with my two arms/hands almost always leads to a clinch, for me.

[yenhoi]

If you want to define trapping and clinching like that then sure, they are seperate, I dont break down range into that small of categories in my training or with my training partners. Personally I train what some would call refrence point trapping as well as what you described as clinching. I probably put more 'time in' on the clinch work since all ranges lead to clinch, wether or not I make pit stops at the other ranges, whatever you want to label them. You dont have to be in the clinch (have a overhook or underhook or both) to be in clinch range.

[yenhoi]

Also, I dont consider 'trapping' to be limited to the opponents arms/hands/elbows/whatnot. Clinch work as well has many lower body and other-body elements to it.