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Thread: "THE LAST SAMURAI" - Man, it's ALWAYS about the one white guy in the film, isn't it?

  1. #31
    maybe. but lets remember that tom cruise only stands at a slightly less than impressive 3ft 1in. So maybe the armor would have fit him after all.
    I will crush my enemies, see them driven before me, then hit their wimminz with a Tony Danza. - Vash

  2. #32
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    Interesting discussion. I guess I like historical accuracy in a movie, but can accept that sometimes you have to change things to make the movie work better. I have an issue with out-and-out lies, but otherwise sometimes artistic license is called for.

    Reminds me of a debate I had with a friend about the LOTR movies and how they weren't totally true to the book. My attitude was that the movie is not the book, and because of the difference in medium sometimes changes had to be made to the story. However, I still felt that some of the changes did not enhance the movie at all, but to each their own.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  3. #33
    I thought the movie was alright. But there were some inaccuracies (both swordplay and historically). I thought the cinematography was really great and the sparring/training scenes with the bokken were pretty fun to watch.

    As for the Japanese employing an American to teach military tactics... at that time... uhh... I'm not so sure about that. There is plenty of material that shows the French and the British were contracted for these things though. I recall reading that the Japanese commisionned the Americans to teach (as the education system of the Americans were the most progressive at the time).

    BTW, Tom Cruise's character "Algren" learning Japanese swordmanship in a short time was not too farfetched in the movie since he was supposed to have been skilled with the saber.

    KG

  4. #34
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    Can hollywood make a fuvken picture without all the BS racists love story!

  5. #35
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    Thumbs down yeah the end did suck

    i think they should have died it would have been great when he mention that greek battle(i know the name just can't spell it) it made think of 300 spartans a movie based on the event and even the king died so i thought tom would've bit the dust as well but it was stated above it's hollywood.

  6. #36
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    SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!







    Yeah, I agree. When the sound got reduced to just the clack-clack-clack of the gatling guns, it would have been a moment worthy of Kurosawa if Tom Cruise and the other guy went down with everyone else, nice and slow, with the cherry blossoms in the background and no last dramatic moment of getting back up. They could follow this with the soldiers kneeling or not, and then cut straight to the credits. No BS at the palace and no BS about Tom Cruise living happily ever after with the woman he made into a widow...
    The cinnabun palm is deadly, especially when combined with the tomato kick. - TenTigers

  7. #37
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    . kempo guy, I am not talking about Algren's ability. I am talking about the samurai teaching it too him so soon.

    Tit Sa

    Yeah, I think the movie would have been a bit better if Taka forgave him but still hated him. The first time I saw the robing part, was thinking it was power, because as much as she hated Algren, he was helping her husband's cause. HOWEVER, when she kissed him, it was just some dumb forbidden love thing

  8. #38
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    Mr. Horse-

    You want some "REAL FORBIDDEN LOVE"

    How bout if the story goes like this-

    Algren travels to Japan with his caucasian wife.

    She falls madly in love with Saigo Takamori, because he is so brave, idealistic and honorable.

    Rest of the story is still the same.

    Would Tom Cruise still be the hero of the show?

  9. #39
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    Lightbulb Well I for one thought the movie was

    EXCELLENT all the war around. Good beginning good middle and definately a good ending. I dont agree that the ending Sucked.

    Hopefully this movie will get acclaimed and get some awards for costumes and acting. I guess you have to understand somewhat of the japanese mindset when it comes to the way of the Samurai and Bushido,,,,the fact that Tom's character was not killed is an indication of the shinto concepts Kharma,,and also by putting him in the house of the samurai he killed also shows a level of the sense of duty and honor that the samurai clans had. Remember it is a great honor to die in service of ones emperor and country in fuedal japan. SO the method in which Tom's Charatcer killed the samurai was looked upon as a good death by the others especially the samurai clan leader. Plus,the clan leader had a vision of him before and this encounter,,so he had to also see kharma through by sparing him and putting him in the house
    of the samurai he killed. the samurai were not savages they were very civilized except in battle when civility is not a factor.
    I thought the ending fit the character Cruise played. It would seem that the director was to make a statement about the character's OWN Kharma and allow him to live through it all and then finally find his center,,which was with the woman whose husband he killed. (remember the mindset i wrote about earlier)
    i doubt any of US westerners would allow an iraqi soldier into our homes that we knew killed our father or brother in battle.
    we would see a need for vengence when there really is no call for it as it is WAR,,,and in this case with the Japanese woman,,accepted her husbands death and then accepted tom's characters apology for killing him. could any of us be so strong?
    i think not.
    YES this IS a beautiful Movie and i hope it gets at least One Oscar.

    Peace,,,,,,TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  10. #40
    to be honest I think you're being pedantic. I am a bit of a scholar of european history, but I don't bleat on about how innaccurate Braveheart is, because its a good old fashioned war movie, same as the last samurai. based VERY loosely on real events. Everyone knows its bollocks, that doesnt make it a bad movie.
    "If there is no grand plan; if there is no big picture; if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

  11. #41
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    Dude, if you read my first post, I gave the movie a "B". I was just stating it wasn't historically correct.

    I enjoyed Braveheart. I don't know enough about European history to say I am a scholar. I guessed that it wasn't 100 % correct. Also, in the DVD, Mel Gibbson says it isn't 100 % correct.

    The movie had some shadowed messages. That could have been taken out of the movie to make it better.

    PS I think it is strange that you would call yourself a scholar when you are only 17.
    Last edited by Mr. Horse; 12-12-2003 at 08:09 PM.

  12. #42
    well I guess having studied english history (real studying, not in a classroom) for about seven years, I would hope that I know enough to know what Im talking about. if you know what I mean

    and I just got the impression that you expected it to be historically accurate, and were complaining that it wasnt. which struck me as more than a little strange when we are talking about a hollywood movie starring Tom Cruise/samurais/ninjas (Im guessing, it isnt out here yet but it wouldn't be old school japan without ninjas)

    and just as a little bit of free information to make the world a better place- for a start, William Wallace was far from a peasant- his father was a minor noble, and he lived most of his life up until around the age of twenty with his uncle where he was destined for a life in the church. he only actually won a single pitched battle- the battle of falkirk, where the english forces were lured over a bridge and slaughtered in what was probably scotlands finest strategical hour. After this, king edward or "longshanks" (who oddly enough is played by a rather short man in the movie, despite him having been well over 6 foot- much taller than most men of that time, and hence the reason for his nickname) left the french frontline to concentrate on the scottish who were raiding across the border into northumbria. A massive force of around 90,000 men were sent to scotland- the battle of Falkirk was a devastating defeat for the scottish, who were torn apart by the english longbows. around 10,000 scottish were estimated to have been killed, while english fatalities were measured in the hundreds.

    after that wallace hid and Robert the Bruce (this was the only part of the movie that irked me- I dont know how they got away with showing Robert the Bruce as a traitor, when he was one of Wallaces greatest supporters and also one of Scotlands greatest leaders) took over control of scotland, leading to a long and drawn out war, which ultimately ended in peace, after longshanks died. It is true though that wallace was caught and killed- an unknown scottish knight turned him in to the english and he was tried as a traitor and killer of women and children several years after the battle of Falkirk.

    and so now you are that much more informed
    "If there is no grand plan; if there is no big picture; if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

  13. #43
    the movie can be summed up like this, from beginning to end this is what i thought "Awesome" "Epic" "Ok" it climaxes at the end but in the middle is where it really shines
    Bling bling

  14. #44

    Oh, Just Go See it

    There are a lot worse things you could be watching. But when Hollywood gets it right, as it does in this case, you should pay attention. Yes, it does get sappy, but what Ed Zwick film doesn't. He does seem to have a fascination with civil war soldiers, though. And I wish Billy Connelly had more to do in this film. Alas. Go see it.
    ~The table saw is my weapon of
    choice

  15. #45
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    The movie made Tom Cruise look good. The story was really good. I wonder how the book differs from the movie...
    "Don't Focus on the Fingers or You will miss all the Heavenly Glory!"

    Morbicid-"Maybe some moves are made just so that, if u somehow manage to pull them off in a fight, u get some serious bragging rights.

    Many famous fighters have done this (roy jones jr, chuck norris, Morbicid, etc)"

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