Good information and anecdotes about GM Wei

[bokfu]

Greetings to all of you, Ba Bu practitioners!

My sifu and good friend, John (Jia-Hwang) Chang wrote me from Taiwan, where he is very involved and asked if I would be able to post some of his personal experiences of knowing Grandmaster Wei and learning ba bu tang lang from him. Sifu Chang wanted to share what a great man and teacher GM Wei was since not too many people discuss this very important figure in our style. Along with this, sifu has included some interesting thoughts on "ji". So, I will pass on his information to those of you who would like to know more about Grandmaster Wei as well as how to tap into ji. If you have any questions or comments on this information, Sifu Chang would be glad to correspond with you. I will post his e-mail address at the end of this post. (By the way, hello to our distant mantis brothers in Taiwan!)

Please note, the following is from Sifu Chang and I am just sort of the messenger so Sifu is the first person in this.

8 STEP PM
After reading KFO forum, I would like to talk about GM Wei, not only as a great martial artis but also a great person. Also, I would like to introduce some more of GM Wei's students along with some personal opinions about 8 step. Some of these stories Grandmaster Wei personally told me and some told by others. So, please make any comment you like if you have any other input.

8 STEP FORMS
When GM Wei starte to teach 8 step in the 60's, he taught all the forms, especially forms 1-6 and demonstrated how to practice each individual movement. When I started to learn the forms in the 70's, GM Wei was only teaching the forms up to the 3rd section to his students and even then would not demonstrate the more difficult moves because of his age. (He was 72 years old when I started.) I then learned seven forms but no weapons in four years of study. GM Wei told me that the weapon is the extension of the form. It is useless to learn the weapon if one was not good at the form. This is the reason that I did not learn any weapon from GM Wei. (Based on his standards, just a few students qualified to be taught a weapon.) I did ask him how I could teach if I only had just a few forms. His answer was "You only need to know one form and get good at it. You already know more than you need to. If you really run out the form during teaching, make up a new form by yourself." After 20 plus years of dedicated training, I have yet to run out of forms.

TEACHING
Every time GM Wei wanted to demonstate the application of a movement, the senior students always tried to find a place to hide. GM Wei would apply the movement to the student and usually we would all end up on the ground from a very tactful punch. He never hurt us badly, but the punch was very painful. Whenever our Fungi Fu brothers got together, we would always talk about Grandmaster Wei and how painful it was getting put down. This was the way that GM Wei would teach. He made sure everyone was down and felt some pain. If one did not catch the movement, GM Wei would put that person down again. If one was to ask three times for the same demonstration of movement in one day, Grandmaster Wei would say "How can you still not understand?" At that point he would put that person down on the ground again with truly excruciating pain! This was the way that we learned from GM Wei.

One other story about Grandmaster Wei's punching follows. One day, GM Wei said to Mr. Wu (who was teaching 8 step part time at Taxis) "you guys do not even know how to do a straight punch." Then, GM Wei made a simple, slow, straight punch to Mr. Wu. Mr. Wu tried to block this punch three times but still got hit in the chest. Mr. Wu told me that he could not move Grandmaster Wei's arm, regardless, whether up, down, or sideways.

Another incident follows: One day, one of the students (we were practicing in the park) in our group noticed someone watching GM Wei's teaching. He remarked that someone was watching the teaching and was trying to steal the movements. Grandmaster Wei said "I can hold your hand to teach you and you would still not be able to catch this movement. I will teach anybody who can catch the movement by only watching"

Grandmaster Wei was always tough on the students no matter how much money had been paid. I only paid GM Wei for 3 months and then he refused to accept my money. This is the reason that up to now, when I teach a student, I do not accept any payment. I remember one time when Master Laing (a Tai Chi teacher from the states) asked Grandmaster Wei to teach him some of the variation of forms for a tidy sum of money. Mr. Laing thought that he would learn some secret movements, which Grandmaster Wei told him did not exist. GM Wei also told Mr. Laing that he would learn the same material as the rest of his students. Master Laing accepted. Later, he found that what he learned was really no different than the others.

Grandmaster Wei was the most honest person that I have known. He always taught us everything he knew. The only drawback for the students was that no one could make the movements remotely close to him! In fact, in 20 years of practice, I still have not discovered how to generate the power that Grandmaster Wei had.

PI (split-open)-CHUNG(fist)
There are some steps in the traditional Kung Fu teaching process. I may make some mistakes in those steps because I was told so long ago. So, please correct me if I am wrong. First step is teaching form. Second step is teaching the application of the techniques in the form. Third step is teaching the variation of the application. It means, what happens to your enemy as he changes his movement, and how you are supposed to change to it. It is called Pi-Chung. Fourth is how to generate Ji.

In 1974 or 1975, Grandmaster Wei stayed at a hospital for a few weeks due to a skin illness. A group of young students came up with a schedule to ensure a student would be there with GM Wei at the hospital 24 hours per day to take care of him. After Grandmaster Wei recovered and was back to teach in the park, I overheard a conversation between GM Wei and Mr. Lin (Paul Lin's father). He said "my students took care of me while I was in the hospital. Those students treated me better than my family." A few days later, Grandmaster Wei started to teach Pi-Chung. This action only lasted a week because those students did not practice. Grandmaster Wei stopped teaching Pi-Chung.

STUDENTS
Before I talk about GM Wei's students, I would like to talk about the type of student that he would not teach. The following type of students were rejected many times by GM Wei.

Students who did not show respect to the senior students, teachers or style.

Students who used the teacher's name or used the name of a style making false statements and cheated.

Students who used what was learned from the school to start illegal business.

Other students with similar morals were never accepted.

Grandmaster Wei had a lot of students. Some may recognize the names such as Master Su Yi-Zhung and Master Lin (Paul Lin's father). Now I would like to introduce two more student who may not be recognized.

Mr. ChenGuo-Chin (Vincent)
Mr. Chen started to learn from GM Wei back in the 60's. He has never stopped his practice since then. He has the best fighting experience among all of Grandmaster Wei's students. In the 70's, he literally could and did fight us with one hand held behind his back! As soon as he pulled that other hand out from behind, we were thrown immediately to the ground. After my practicing for so many years, we had a friendly meeting in San Jose. While talking of mantis, Mr. Chen threw me down for nonstop for 30 minutes with no repeated movement! Mr. Chen also learned Ba-Gai and other styles. He is also a great friend of Master Su. Mr. Chen has mentioned some stories of his punching a guy three times and the guy was put into the hospital several months. Also an interesting thing Mr. Chen mentioned about Master Su was when he killed a sheep without touching it. Mr. Chen will be moving to the United States in 2004 and he will be opening an eight step mantis school. I will let everyone know when this comes to pass.

Mr. Zuo Hsien-Fu
Mr. Zuo learned from Grandmaster Wei at the Taiwan University starting in 1971. He opened the only 8 step mantis school at Taipei ten years ago. Mr. Zuo spent 3 years with GM Wei before the passing of GM Wei. Sone one told me that Mr. Zuo practically lived in GM Wei's home during that time. Mr. Zuo is the only person that I know who can connect Tu-Bai with 8 step mantis. Mr. Zuo published more than 10 8-step related articles at Chinese Kung Fu magazine. He also reprinted Grandmaster Wei's second book and plans to have the third book reprinted also.

EXTERNAL STYLE AND INTERNAL STYLE
The difference between external and internal style is how to generate the power of the movement. Internal style uses Ji and external style uses force. The difference of Ji and force is relaxing. Ji requires relaxing and force requires tension.

So, any good Kung Fu style can be external or internal depending on how the power is generated. Based on the above definition, 8 step shall be an internal style. It is why Grandmaster Wei could be so powerful on every single movement even when he was in his 70's!

John Chang
aimt_jchang@yahoo.com

[Tainan Mantis]

bokfu,
Great stuff!
I spent a very enjoyable day with your shrfu.
Very enjoyable time we had.
He related some of the stories you wrote here.

Question:
Zuo Hsienfu started in 1971 with GM Wei. How is it that he only spent 3 years with him?
Is that a mistype?

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by bokfu

[I]
GM Wei told me that the weapon is the extension of the form. It is useless to learn the weapon if one was not good at the form. This is the reason that I did not learn any weapon from GM Wei. (Based on his standards, just a few students qualified to be taught a weapon.) I did ask him how I could teach if I only had just a few forms. His answer was "You only need to know one form and get good at it. You already know more than you need to. If you really run out the form during teaching, make up a new form by yourself." After 20 plus years of dedicated training, I have yet to run out of forms.

( I couldn't agree more, form what my father said, GM Wei also emphasise on the practical aspect. he told my father that you can't carry a sword or long stick walking on the street like the really old days, so my father has only learned a short stick form form him. My father has exchaged that form with T.T. Liang with other sword forms.)

TEACHING
Every time GM Wei wanted to demonstate the application of a movement, the senior students always tried to find a place to hide. GM Wei would apply the movement to the student and usually we would all end up on the ground from a very tactful punch. He never hurt us badly, but the punch was very painful. Whenever our Fungi Fu brothers got together, we would always talk about Grandmaster Wei and how painful it was getting put down. This was the way that GM Wei would teach. He made sure everyone was down and felt some pain. If one did not catch the movement, GM Wei would put that person down again.

(That my father has experienced too, once he was demo a ChinNa on my father. Also in another case, he demo a back slapping palm--Fan Bei Zhang--on my father, eventhough he never touched my father's face, my father said that he felt the wind that numb his nose tip)

If one was to ask three times for the same demonstration of movement in one day, Grandmaster Wei would say "How can you still not understand?" At that point he would put that person down on the ground again with truly excruciating pain! This was the way that we learned from GM Wei.

(Yet, most student didn't understand why GM did that. My father know that reason will, which let him not to be hurt as much as others. GM Wei did that way because he thought student should practice his foundation teaching seriously for a very long time. Without the proper patient for the simple foundation drill, one can never apply moves correct no matter how much forms he/she knows. When you drill enough, you will get it on your own and not asking premature questions. He will get angry and discourage you to asking premature questions and make you go back and practice hard on what was already taught rather show your new ones.)

One other story about Grandmaster Wei's punching follows. One day, GM Wei said to Mr. Wu (who was teaching 8 step part time at Taxis) "you guys do not even know how to do a straight punch." Then, GM Wei made a simple, slow, straight punch to Mr. Wu. Mr. Wu tried to block this punch three times but still got hit in the chest. Mr. Wu told me that he could not move Grandmaster Wei's arm, regardless, whether up, down, or sideways.

(I would say GM Wei was demo the skill vs. kung in that case. He like people talk very little and practice alot, no matter how boring it seems.)

Another incident follows: One day, one of the students (we were practicing in the park) in our group noticed someone watching GM Wei's teaching. He remarked that someone was watching the teaching and was trying to steal the movements. Grandmaster Wei said "I can hold your hand to teach you and you would still not be able to catch this movement. I will teach anybody who can catch the movement by only watching"

(2 thumbs up, that is what my father told us often. My father even add that if one can steal form peeping, I would ask him/her to teach me that instead. But I always counter with that the peepingtoms don't need to copy the real skills like you will recognize, they just make up fake forms form what they see and the unknow public wouldn't know any different until really applying them.)

Grandmaster Wei was always tough on the students no matter how much money had been paid. I only paid GM Wei for 3 months and then he refused to accept my money. This is the reason that up to now, when I teach a student, I do not accept any payment.

(My father didn't pay any at all when he learned form GM Wei)

I remember one time when Master Laing (a Tai Chi teacher from the states) asked Grandmaster Wei to teach him some of the variation of forms for a tidy sum of money. Mr. Laing thought that he would learn some secret movements, which Grandmaster Wei told him did not exist. GM Wei also told Mr. Laing that he would learn the same material as the rest of his students. Master Laing accepted. Later, he found that what he learned was really no different than the others.

(That is T.T. Liang, my father's good friend, died in NJ as 102 years old. He went to GM Wei when he was in 70's, and still tried to do the push ups--iron ox punding the ground--super impressive spirit, even he can't do it. GM Wei's personality has a all opened and straight charactor. Lay them all under the sun and no secrete or mysteries. He hates people who emphasised on secretes and mysteries, he though these people need to be beat up and shut up.)

Grandmaster Wei was the most honest person that I have known. He always taught us everything he knew. The only drawback for the students was that no one could make the movements remotely close to him! In fact, in 20 years of practice, I still have not discovered how to generate the power that Grandmaster Wei had.

(dirll, drill, drill, and never give in, never compromise)

PI (split-open)-CHUNG(fist)
There are some steps in the traditional Kung Fu teaching process. I may make some mistakes in those steps because I was told so long ago. So, please correct me if I am wrong. First step is teaching form. Second step is teaching the application of the techniques in the form. Third step is teaching the variation of the application. It means, what happens to your enemy as he changes his movement, and how you are supposed to change to it. It is called Pi-Chung. Fourth is how to generate Ji.

In 1974 or 1975, Grandmaster Wei stayed at a hospital for a few weeks due to a skin illness. A group of young students came up with a schedule to ensure a student would be there with GM Wei at the hospital 24 hours per day to take care of him. After Grandmaster Wei recovered and was back to teach in the park, I overheard a conversation between GM Wei and Mr. Lin (Paul Lin's father). He said "my students took care of me while I was in the hospital. Those students treated me better than my family." A few days later, Grandmaster Wei started to teach Pi-Chung. This action only lasted a week because those students did not practice. Grandmaster Wei stopped teaching Pi-Chung.

(That explain why GM Wei took tudi as family memebers rather like millitary ranking or cult structure.)

STUDENTS
Before I talk about GM Wei's students, I would like to talk about the type of student that he would not teach. The following type of students were rejected many times by GM Wei.

Students who did not show respect to the senior students, teachers or style.

Students who used the teacher's name or used the name of a style making false statements and cheated.

Students who used what was learned from the school to start illegal business.

(that is to teach for money rather than pass down art)

Other students with similar morals were never accepted.

(if you were found like that once you will never be taught mostlikely for life)

Grandmaster Wei had a lot of students. Some may recognize the names such as Master Su Yi-Zhung and Master Lin (Paul Lin's father).

(hey, my father came much earlier than Su, how come his name came later????? )

Mr. Zuo learned from Grandmaster Wei at the Taiwan University starting in 1971.

(My father recalled to see Zuo in the first time about 2 years before he left to USA. My father came to USA in Aug. 1983. And that is at the central park, not in Taiwan University. I have no idea if he met GM Wei in Taiwan University and when.)

(One student named Wang Chiu-Hsung is who my father considered a top student. Other one named Wang-Jie is also a genuine GM Wei's student.)

Ji requires relaxing and force requires tension.

(Jier alway in curves and Li cuts angles, Jier is alive and Li is dead)

[Tainan Mantis]

Paul,
If I understand you correctly Zuo Hsienfu came to study with GM Wei in 1981.
It should be 1971.
Here is a picture of him on the left of GM Wei in 1974.
The students are behind them training the single leg stance.

[Tainan Mantis]

GM Wei performs an application on Zuo Hsienfu.
The caption reads," Hsiao Fanche"

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
Paul,
If I understand you correctly Zuo Hsienfu came to study with GM Wei in 1981.
It should be 1971.
Here is a picture of him on the left of GM Wei in 1974.
The students are behind them training the single leg stance.

That picture I cannot recognize where they took. The one on the right should be Zuo and next to him was GM Wei. If I cannot recognize the background, I think they are not practicing in the Central Park, the place I used to know. I will check with my father to see if he can remember GM Wei has taught 8 step in another location other than that Central Park. Based on this pickture, it is like GM Wei has taught in another location.

I wondered if you happened to know where is that location, so I can ask my father.

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
GM Wei performs an application on Zuo Hsienfu.
The caption reads," Hsiao Fanche"

The picture showed a movement called HaiDeeLaoYue or HaiDeeChiuBao, demo by GM Wei to Zuo. And if there ever any thing looked like has to do with Hsiao Fanche, it will be Zuo, looked like a Hsiaofanche move being countered by HaiDeeChiuBao.

This picture has the background very much like the Central Park. Is this picture also dated 1974? I first started 8 step in that park in 1979.

[RAF]

During one of our tournaments, Mr. Chen Quo Chin gave a masters demonstratin of his Xing Yi and this guy has real power and is overall just superb.

I understand his bagua is outstanding and his baji is really good. He was coverd a couple of months (or one year ago) in the Japanese martial arts magazine.

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by PaulLin


That picture I cannot recognize where they took. The one on the right should be Zuo and next to him was GM Wei. If I cannot recognize the background, I think they are not practicing in the Central Park, the place I used to know. I will check with my father to see if he can remember GM Wei has taught 8 step in another location other than that Central Park. Based on this pickture, it is like GM Wei has taught in another location.

I wondered if you happened to know where is that location, so I can ask my father.

Well, my father does not recall any. And GM Wei's pictures in the 70's look younger. The picture you showed looked very old and saggy GM Wei. I am wondering if the picture you have listed just 74 or 1974. If only 74, then that may be not Western AD year, it could be Repoblic of China, Taiwan year. In wich it started at 1911. So ROC year 74 is actually 1985 AD. How old is Zuo now? Maybe we can find out how old is he back in 1974 and see if he looked like that age in the picture.

[bokfu]

Greetings to all you ba bu brothers, Tainan Mantis and Mr. Lin~

I had a correspondence from my sifu, John Chang and he remarked about the photos that were posted earlier. This is an excerp from his e-mail that may answer some questions posed. Following is the info that is pertinent:

{The first picture of Grandmaster Wei with three other people was taken at the park. The building behind the wall was called "southgate middle school". GM Wei taught students at that location around 1972 to 1974.
The second picture was also taken at the Park. You can identify the place by the iron fence behind GM Wei. I have a picture in front of me which has GM Wei, Master Zuo , myself and other students in the park. I believe that picture was taken around 1975 or 1976.}

So, maybe this information from Sifu Chang may help pin down what is up with the images posted. I appreciate those attachments, as I find any images of GM Wei and his students not only enjoyable to view, but also because of their being important documentation. My thanks to those of you who post information, photos, quotes etc. that relate to Grandmaster Wei and our style of martial arts!

Take care all and train hard!

[PaulLin]

Originally posted by bokfu
Greetings to all you ba bu brothers, Tainan Mantis and Mr. Lin~

I had a correspondence from my sifu, John Chang and he remarked about the photos that were posted earlier. This is an excerp from his e-mail that may answer some questions posed. Following is the info that is pertinent:

{The first picture of Grandmaster Wei with three other people was taken at the park. The building behind the wall was called "southgate middle school". GM Wei taught students at that location around 1972 to 1974.
The second picture was also taken at the Park. You can identify the place by the iron fence behind GM Wei. I have a picture in front of me which has GM Wei, Master Zuo , myself and other students in the park. I believe that picture was taken around 1975 or 1976.}

So, maybe this information from Sifu Chang may help pin down what is up with the images posted. I appreciate those attachments, as I find any images of GM Wei and his students not only enjoyable to view, but also because of their being important documentation. My thanks to those of you who post information, photos, quotes etc. that relate to Grandmaster Wei and our style of martial arts!

Take care all and train hard!

That is very helpful for me to ask my father. the Southgate middle high school was where I used to attend, it is just right next to the park. Right now I am out of CA and busy otherwise. I have no knowledge of the teaching near the middleschool in the 1970s. Got to ask my father for that after I am back to CA. Any ways, I think my father has told me that GM Wei first starts to teach on one side of the park, then later moved to the other side. The later location of the park is where I fomiliar of, not the first place.