Who is Femon Ong?

[MonkeyKingUSA]

I am from the Akron area and have trained with one of Sifu Ong's direct students and several of that lineage's members in the past (70's and 80's). Also, my closest kung fu brother trained with the group for several years.
Many of the forms Sifu Ong taught were actually taken from other systems and drastically shortened. They have a version of Bung Bu from 7* Praying Mantis. Their "9 times" form is a bad version of the Hung Gar Iron Wire set. They also teach a form they call "Far Ken" which is a shortened version of a Choy Li Fut set. Plus, they have various animal sets (including monkey ). They referred to their fist sets as "tokens" (fist way).
They place a heavy emphasis on Iron Palm which they call "Little Hand" and "Big Hand" and Iron Body. Their Iron Body instruction is top notch. I learned their Iron Body training in the middle 80's from **** Pitts Jr., who was a student of Gene Chicoine. Mr. Chicoine was a student of Sifu Ong for a while.
The only weapons set I ever saw performed was a fan set.
Their students are typically rock solid from the training. Forms with applications were taught. However, sparring was forbidden. Some members engaged in bar fights and dojo storming in the past to test their skills.
Al Wasil took over the head of the system after the death of Sifu Ong.

[IronWeasel]

Femon Ong's Kwan Ying Do System:

http://www.kwanyingdo.com/

[Gongli]

Feeman Ong taught a bunch of stuff, quite an experience being part of his kwan Ying do system, and I really mean that.

[Gongli]

I'll go further with my statement. Those who know me know me for my bluntness.
Feeman Ong taught a bunch of stuff. When I was a younger person some 34/35 years ago, I was introduced to Feeman Ong's Kwan Ying do, although it was named Kenpo Karate at that time, Nobody seemed to know what was what. Feeman Claimed to be one of the 10 tigers. 10 tigers of what? I have no Idea.
There where only 10 famouse figures whom I know of as 10 tigers, and Feemans name isn't mentioned. He also claimed to be trained by the Shaolin Monks, and claimed he was a Shaolin monk, and to be the winner of several death matches while part of the famed Dragon fighting team. "never heard of it". Claimed that the finish to one of his death matches was the removal of a still beating heart of his opponent. Anybody getting the Idea who Feeman Ong was? Claimed that The Monks at the temple in China knew of
everything going on at his studio's and approved. Claimed that these same monks
where in the mountains picking rare Chinese herbs for his Iron Palm medicine that sold for $300 to $2100 dollars depending on which 1 gallon mix you purchased.
Never mind all that stuff about the cultural revolution. There where so many bizarre stories, Its a surprise I didn't give up training altogether.

I will say the study of Feeman Ong's kung fu without a doubt is the biggest waste of time a person could embark upon. Fraudulent training sets, pieces
parts of this and that. Iron Body training that Is not iron body training but part of the basic training for White crane. basic set after basic set. A mile wide and an inch deep.
To top it all off, the senior instructors that have been left behind in charge, Alex Wasil or Dr. Alex Wasil, what a load of crap, and the psychotic Robert Kruger,candidate for a rubber room
if there ever was.
These two Jackweeds have a complete inability to ever speak any truth.
completely incompetent in their understanding of the material they teach.
and they have no problem relieving students of their money while teaching
some rare qigong out a book that they picked up two weeks prior.

I have had an opportunity to meet several people over the years that trained with this group. I am embarressed for them when they demonstrate their stuff. Someone mentioned Richard Pitts Jr. a long time student and instructor
under Feeman Ong, I met one of this persons instructors who had eight years of training, This person had absolutely no skill and was on his way to getting hurt.
I asked him what have you been doing, his reply was that Mr. Pitts beats us,
because if you can take a beating you where one step up on others... I suppose?

I have trained with some of these people in my past at one time or another, what a waste of time. These people have ruined countless enthusiastic students.
I think if I hear one more time about how instructors from this group can teleport themselves across town while in some meditative state, honest to God I may
hit that person.

I dont know about the monks, but many authentic schools knew what was going on in Akron, Instructors in San Francisco laughed and refered to the training here as Chop Suey. I call it Crap. It was quite a cult in the day, still is but not as much. Allen and the rest of them are no better, forms pirates, that prey on
the unknowing.
Did people work hard, you bet, like freeken animals! It is a shame that this got into the hands of such ripoff artists,

Some of these folks have gone on to better themselves and get training that is legit, God bless em, I'll leave them to speak if they so desire.

You fight how you train an old kung fu saying goes. Holding stances and practicing *******ized forms for 10 years just wont cut it. Feeman never trained any fighters, The people who could fight, could fight before they met Feeman and thats the cold truth of the matter. Kung fu is for the average person to be able to
survive against a more potent adversary. I actually witnessed two students with over 6 years of training each get the snot beat of them in a garage kickboxing match against a person with less than eight months of training. If anything the training these guys had, was what got them snot kicked.

Ive seen dozens of posts over the years on this subject, well here is your firsthand account. you no longer need to speculate an Feeman Ong and his
group of inept instructors.

I could go on and on, but I'll let you guys chew on this for a while

[mickey]

Greetings,

Gongli,

On the six hour Q&A tape from Green Dragon, Sifu Allen gave me the impression that he was more than a little spooked by the metaphysical aspects of training that Master Ong taught. That being said, did you learn the Golden Buddha Meditation? Would you please share what it is about and share your experiences with it?

Thank you and welcome to the forum.

mickey

[Gongli]

The Golden Buddha Meditation, That's not a Feeman thing, That would be a Allen thing, Something picked up, probably related to all the stuff he refers to as White Lotus... All of this material from what I had reviewed was actually a style called Tao Gar. A Family style from an instructor named Andrew Lum in Hawaii. This was something given to Allen second hand.
Not directly from master Lum. It was a Hakka style connected very much to metaphysics and black magic. The hand gestures in this styles sets are meant to have combative meaning against demonic possession and the dead. The spirit world just beyond ones sight." mmm OK" right up Allens alley. Anyway Im sure that what is spoken of on the tape relates to a story that is associated with the material. Im also sure that he only has the most superficial layers of the style. The person who gave him the material was very upset with what he saw that had been done to it {Feemanized}and refused to turn anymore of it over. Tao gar was very popular amongst the Honolulu Police officers. And I believe Master Lum has passed. Also for the record Master Lum had nothing to do with Allen.

Kind of a 70's thing..Hotel California, Anton LaVey. Several Feeman guys were into some sort of time wasting crap like that. A mile wide and an inch deep.

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Gongli,
Please man, tell us how you REALLY feel!
Yes, that is the general feeling in Akron. It makes you wonder when EVERYTHING you hear about a group is negative. Especially from the MA peeps in the area.
I was once at a class where Al Wasil was telling his students about the Shaolin monks hand picking the herbs for the Akron schools. He went on to say that everyone needed to buy the Iron Body pills he sold because you can accidentally run into a door, hit a dim mak point and die. His pills could prevent that.
In the story you told about the fight in the garage, were you referring to Richard Pitts Jr's studio? I had brought two of my Monkey students (husband and wife) with me from Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Richard allowed us to stay the night at the studio. The next day we all sparred. I think it might have been the first time Richard's students had ever sparred. My male student with six months experience couldn't be touched by Richard's students with years of experience.
In defense of Richard Pitts Jr., he was always kind to me. He once literally gave me the sweatshirt off his back (and pants). He said that they had absorbed his chi from training and that he wanted me to have it to blend with my chi. No, I don't believe in that sort of thing, but I believe that he did and I took it as a kind gesture. Richard was also one of the toughest men I have ever known. You couldn't hurt him! He trained two hours everyday for years. I once watched him tear apart an old style brick backyard grill with only his hands and feet.
I was very sad when I heard that Richard had died in prison. I have only fond memories of him. Does anyone know what happened to his son? His son was only a few years older than my daughter.
I agree that the Akron crew spread some whoppers, but they also provided a good base for many of us when we went into other Chinese arts.
Here are a few martial artists that began in the Feeman Ong lineage:
Wayne Schultz (Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun)
Mike Biggie (Bei Tang Lang)
Ed Niam (Fut Ga & Tai Chi Chuan)
Gene Chicoine (Shuai Jiao)

[Sifu Darkfist]

for a bunch of guys that love Cma i am suprised that the basics do not hold a closer place in your hearts. i.e.

"Iron Body training that Is not iron body training but part of the basic training for White crane. basic set after basic set. A mile wide and an inch deep". Cong li?

90 arm grabs per side per day? isometric training? lots of stance work for strength
lots of punches repeated and kicks repeated?
sounds like good solid training to me.

A great powerful master once told me ___"Xiao Ji Mi train the basics all the time, without the constant use of these you have no kung fu" and "dont tell the fighters to much they dont need all that stuff they just need 3-5 sets of attacks thats it!" " the attacks must be their best kung fu "No defense Just go ...Just touch and Go" That man is My Master Yang Xiao Dong And i can say first hand, he knows the way to use all phases of combat.


"Train a thousand punches a day to make one count" Tiger Yang Xiao Dong ( my personal nick name for my beloved master.)

[Royal Dragon]

Training basics properly is the key. Trainng them wrong 1000 rps a day isn't going to do anything but make you really good, at being really bad.

[Iron Buda]

After all these years and people are still asking about Feemen.
I studied under Master Ong from 1969 till his passing, I then went with went with the main school.
Master Ong left the school under the guidance of Master Al Wasel.
Master Wasel is as great a healer as he is a Fighter.

If anyone wants to update this thread I'll let you in on some of Ohio's best-kept secrets.


Iron Buda

[ekaltenborn]

Al Wasil?.... C'mon man, think it through before you post. he is not a master of anything-- especially martial arts. If you've ever seen him move he looks like a cross between rosanne barr and jabba the hutt rolling across the floor.

Sorry for my blunt statement but I culdnt resist. Those Kwan Ying Do guys have been screwing up martial arts in the Northeast Ohio area for 35 plus years.

I was training with a reputable Arnis instructor from the West Coast about a year ago and when he found out I was from Northeast Ohio and did Kung Fu, he asked "you arent one of those ******* feemon ong guys are you"....

Theres some great Kung FU in that area, unfortunately Kwan Ying Do aint it...

[Akronviper]

From my dealings in the Akron area, and else where. There are two types of people one that thinks that Ong was the greatest thing since sliced bread (mostly because he was an asian in the 70's so it must of ment he knew kung fu), and others that see him as a fraud. Looking at both sides it seems that he had some martial arts knowledge and could fight, but he had to make rediculous story's to get the faith of the gullable white man. He had a captive market of being one of the few to teach supposed CMA in a town with many Karate schools.

[ekaltenborn]

Thats a Great perspective AkronViper!

I think that there are certainly folks that think he was the greatest thing going. And those that thought him a fraud

To your point that he had to make ridiculous stories to get a buy in from the general public is probably accurate as well; hence why people tend to see him as a fraud.

Good, objective post!

Eric

[MonkeyKingUSA]

After all these years and people are still asking about Feemen.
I studied under Master Ong from 1969 till his passing, I then went with went with the main school.
Master Ong left the school under the guidance of Master Al Wasel.
Master Wasel is as great a healer as he is a Fighter.

If anyone wants to update this thread I'll let you in on some of Ohio's best-kept secrets.


Iron Buda

Iron Buda,
I would like to hear your opinion.
BTW, is this Wayne Schultz, student of Feeman Ong? I just wondered since you gave your location as Green, Ohio.

[ekaltenborn]

http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html

It appears in looking at this as if Wayne Schultz was maybe a student of Feemon Ong....

Dont really know Mr. Schultz or know too much about him other than he has been around a long time.