Who is Femon Ong?

[MonkeyKingUSA]

http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html

It appears in looking at this as if Wayne Schultz was maybe a student of Feemon Ong....

Dont really know Mr. Schultz or know too much about him other than he has been around a long time.

I have known Wayne for about twenty years. He is a good martial artist with some good students. His school is in Green, Ohio. He studied with Feeman Ong for many years. He then studied with Yao Li for a while. He also has been hooked up with the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun group for decades.
Darkfist who posts here studied with him for a while I believe.

MKUSA
http://www.angrymonkeyfist.com

[JDK]

I studied this with this System both before and after Feemon's death.

As is the case too often in the MA World,when a master dies, several long-time Students via for Leadership. Unfortunately....none of them could get along, and had all held private jealousy issues , unspoken until Master Ong died.

Sad. After all he had taught them during his Sunday Lectures..they selfishly sought out thier own agenda's.

Feemon's son, Steven Ong was left as Head of the system...because of his youth, the senior students, ( Al Walsil, Bob Kruger and others) left and ventured out on their own, taking some students witrh them.

Gene Chicione and John Allen left way before that, again...because of power struggles and a desire for their own agenda's.

Allen has the Green Dragon Studio in Stow and Chicione has a school named HO-CHUN near Downtown Akron...and because he impressed the late Master Chang with his fighting skills...Mater Chang chose him as the disciple to carry on the Art ( even picking Chicione ahead of his own sons!)...he has since become the Director of the International Shiua Chiao Association and has trained many proficient fighters.

Chicoin IS the real deal as far as fighting and knowledge goes..unfortunetly he and Allen are not very nice men....again..something Feemon regretted to his dying day I believe, because he had invested so much time and training into these two men.

Anyways....Stephen Ong now has 20 plus years of addittional training, and is one of the few left in the System who actually had to Fight in Taiwan for his Black Sash..he too is the real deal.
Bob Keen ( my favoite teacher of all) lives in the Ong House in Barberton and keeps thing going. He is a gentlmen and a diligent martial arts teacher, who is now in late 60's and because of his Daily practice.....can still do things men half his age cannot.

So say what you will about Kwan Ying Do...I am not saying it is the best style out there...but it is a very good system for learning Basic Stances, Forms, Weapons and if you can earn the privilage...good training on Herbal Remedies and many Health Enhancing exercises.

[kal]

I Chicoin IS the real deal as far as fighting and knowledge goes..unfortunetly he and Allen are not very nice men....again..something Feemon regretted to his dying day I believe, because he had invested so much time and training into these two men.
.

What makes Allen not a nice man? I haven't met him, but am familiar with the articles he used to write for Inside Kung Fu. I found myself agreeing with his writings a lot. I thought he was like the boy that dared to point out the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes.

I've also seen him doing some public speaking on videotapes (Question and Answer sessions) and he came across as very confident and a charismatic communicator.

[kal]

By the way, is the name Femon Ong a Chinese name? Or is it some other language?

[JDK]

What makes Allen not a nice man? I haven't met him, but am familiar with the articles he used to write for Inside Kung Fu. I found myself agreeing with his writings a lot. I thought he was like the boy that dared to point out the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes.

I've also seen him doing some public speaking on videotapes (Question and Answer sessions) and he came across as very confident and a charismatic communicator.

The exact description as I remember it of John Allen was a frustatrated Paratrooper looking for a fight...
So I decided to attend his Class and meet hm face to face.

I found him arrogant, aloof, condensending and an Ego Maniac.

I've given you my opinion...I suggest you ask Wayne Shultz ...
http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html

Al Walsil http://www.kwanyingdo.com/

Mastr Kao (One of Feemons Main Teachers) Master Kao to sheng/Gao dao sheng,Master Lau/Lowand Master Ma. Master Kao is in his 80's now and has knee surgury but he remains the leader of one of the better Long Fist Praying Mantis kung fu schools in Taiwan. If you ever wanted to contact the school it is at Wan-Hua District, Ch'ing Nien Road, Lane68,no. 30 B-1. Taipai, Taiwan R.O.C.Other info on Master ong may be seen on the Mantis Cave

And here is some of the Linage of Kwan-Ying -do

http://www.kwanyingdo.com/lineage.htm

[kal]

The exact description as I remember it of John Allen was a frustatrated Paratrooper looking for a fight...
So I decided to attend his Class and meet hm face to face.

I found him arrogant, aloof, condensending and an Ego Maniac.

I've given you my opinion...I suggest you ask Wayne Shultz ...
http://www.schulzmartialarts.com/sifu/sifu.html

Al Walsil http://www.kwanyingdo.com/

[/b]

And here is some of the Linage of Kwan-Ying -do

http://www.kwanyingdo.com/lineage.htm

Well, I have no reason not to believe you, since you've met him and trained with him and I haven't. I was just giving my impression of him from his speech on video.

But is there any truth to the rumour that there is a lot of Bible study and Christianity emphasised once you get inside Allen's "core group" at Green Dragon?

[JDK]

Well, I have no reason not to believe you, since you've met him and trained with him and I haven't. I was just giving my impression of him from his speech on video.

But is there any truth to the rumour that there is a lot of Bible study and Christianity emphasised once you get inside Allen's "core group" at Green Dragon?

Yes that is true.....and is a real mystery to me.
If you looked ay my Profile you see I list religion as one of my Interests.

That is actually an understatement..

I have been a born again christian for 25 years....and although I have only met Allen Twice, I never got the impression I was with another believer.

However..............

A friend of mine trained under him for a year and verified that he did teach the Bible after work-outs.

So I cannot judge him on that...just on the Martial Arts rumors and things I witnesed first hand living less than 3 miles from his School.

JD

[iron tiger]

Briefly--

Gene Chicione and John Allen left way before that, again...because of power struggles and a desire for their own agenda's

Untrue. And somewhat ridiculous. As covered in another thread.

In fact, it is JDK who appears to be distorting several facts in accordance with what is becoming a fairly obvious personal agenda.

just on the Martial Arts rumors

Ah, we judge people on the rumors now, eh? Well, that explains a lot! LOL.

I grew up in the Akron area, too. Amazing, reading some of the recent threads, how "varied" some of the opinions & "rumors" regarding the various personalities mentioned were, and still are.

is there any truth to the rumour that there is a lot of Bible study and Christianity emphasised once you get inside Allen's "core group" at Green Dragon?

I trained there for a spell. And attended some of the Bible studies, which were held one night a week and were purely optional. I was curious about my teacher's thinking etc.

You did not have to be part of the "core group" to attend nor was any sort of belief or afiliation with Judeo-Christianism required for success or participation in the CMA.

I found him arrogant, aloof, condensending and an Ego Maniac...not a nice man

A sterner disciplinarian or more demanding taskmaster you'd be hard-pressed to find. Likewise for his fairness and adherence to clearly laid-out principles.

But "not a nice man"? Sheesh!

picture of Femon Ong

Have you seen this site?

http://seroteamavi.com/martial/kwan_ying_do_kung_fu.htm

Pic of him right there, too.

[Piercinghammer]

I will chime in on this one:

Yes this has been one that has always lost me. I have had several students show up at my studio and join who where at one time Green dragon students.
They have all told me that was the standard, You must study at Allen's Bible study to become part of the inner group. Other things like calling the potential
new inner group student in the middle of the night and telling them they must report to specific location in 10 minutes, Having students turn over their weekly income so Allen can turn back over to them what they need for their personal finances. These people where students then, Some are college professors or managers of one sort or another now, and none of them have anything good to say about their Green dragon experience, One was a member of their demo team. Another student was fearful that word would get back that he was training at my studio. There is no excuse for this type of control being used on students.

I remember meeting Allen about 1978 when he was a visitor at Chicoine's school in Mogadore, when he left Chicoine absolutely ripped him, made jokes and referred to him in a very unflattering manner and nothing good to say about his students either. That always seemed wired to me when I was younger.

JDK I'm afraid I must agree with your analogy of "frustrated paratrooper". If I remember correctly Allen was a member of the Kent State ROTC Honor guard, studied psychology and drama when he was in college.

Wow I could see the next time a comet comes close this guy will have the inner group all get new sneakers and lay on their beds with trash bags over their heads ready to move on the next mission.



Mike Biggie
7 Star Praying Mantis,Hong Kong Branch
Choy Li Fut, Hung Sing Branch
Yang Tai Chi

[JDK]

Briefly--



Untrue. And somewhat ridiculous. As covered in another thread.

Untrue because you say so ??? I was there....were you?
Know your facts before using such strong words like "ridiculous"

In fact, it is JDK who appears to be distorting several facts in accordance with what is becoming a fairly obvious personal agenda.

What agenda ???? I deal in facts. I have no dealings or personal beef's with Chicione or Allen. I am writing what I know....take it or leave it.

Ah, we judge people on the rumors now, eh? Well, that explains a lot! LOL.

I grew up in the Akron area, too. Amazing, reading some of the recent threads, how "varied" some of the opinions & "rumors" regarding the various personalities mentioned were, and still are.

I agree. Everybody see's things a little different...take a Professional Boxing match for instance....I have watched the same fight as someone with me...and had a totally different opinion as to who won the decision...also many times the Judges scores are vastly different. We all process things in our own way.

I trained there for a spell. And attended some of the Bible studies, which were held one night a week and were purely optional. I was curious about my teacher's thinking etc.

You did not have to be part of the "core group" to attend nor was any sort of belief or afiliation with Judeo-Christianism required for success or participation in the CMA.



A sterner disciplinarian or more demanding taskmaster you'd be hard-pressed to find. Likewise for his fairness and adherence to clearly laid-out principles.

But "not a nice man"? Sheesh!



Have you seen this site?

http://seroteamavi.com/martial/kwan_ying_do_kung_fu.htm

No I hadnt ...thanks. We had several pictures of Maste Kao in our training Room at the Ong House....but little knowledge of his teachings.

Pic of him right there, too.

[Akronviper]

Untrue. And somewhat ridiculous. As covered in another thread.

This is half true. Allen left Ong before Chicoine did and Chicoine met with G.M Chang in the mid 70's (74 to 78). Ong had died in the early 80's (i belive 82 or 84).

As far as power strugles I dont belive they wanted to be the head of the Kwan Ying Do system. They were just dissatified with Ong. I was not around at the time but have heard many reasons from many people and the people I trust the most have no reason to lie say it was over other issues.

[RAF]

A friend of mine, familar with the Chinese language and Southern China, also couldn't figure out how Ong could be a Chinese name until he ran into some relatives of Femon Ong. The relatives spelled their name Huang. The it would would be easy to mispronounce hwaang as ong and standard pinyin really wasn't applicable, especially those speaking Cantonese.

[JDK]

A friend of mine, familar with the Chinese language and Southern China, also couldn't figure out how Ong could be a Chinese name until he ran into some relatives of Femon Ong. The relatives spelled their name Huang. The it would would be easy to mispronounce hwaang as ong and standard pinyin really wasn't applicable, especially those speaking Cantonese.

Having known Feemon, Stephen, his Sisters and Mrs Ong...I can assure you they are Chinese.

Buddism was their religion...and Chinese sayings, knic-knacks and other Books were scatterd through out the House....most in Chinese.

The Board for the Beginners Required Forms were written first in Chinese..and then the translation was written next to the Chinese name of the Forms ( called Tokens) in English.

Everything from our Uniforms to the herbs and medicines were shipped from China or Tiawan, as I personally saw the Boxes and Original Shipping Cartons.

JD

[MonkeyKingUSA]

I had heard that Feeman's daughters were accomplished martial artists also.

[iron_silk]

Having known Feemon, Stephen, his Sisters and Mrs Ong...I can assure you they are Chinese.

Buddism was their religion...and Chinese sayings, knic-knacks and other Books were scatterd through out the House....most in Chinese.

The Board for the Beginners Required Forms were written first in Chinese..and then the translation was written next to the Chinese name of the Forms ( called Tokens) in English.

Everything from our Uniforms to the herbs and medicines were shipped from China or Tiawan, as I personally saw the Boxes and Original Shipping Cartons.

JD

I have been reading this thread for awhile.....and until someone mentioned that they are not sure that "Ong" was a chinese name

But Huang is Wong...so the relatives you are speaking of must've been through marriage or other relations.

Because Ong is definitely not Huang or Wong