Siu Tong Long Tid Bit

[seung ga faat]

The northern school of Boxing has been widely practiced for a long time. According to historical records, Mantis Boxing was first practiced by monks and priests in the temples of the Laoshan area in Shandong Province.They regarded it as a treasure for guarding the mountain and kept it secret from others.(outsiders). About 100 passed years after it was passed on to others, there were two successors of different styles. One was represented by Monk Ascensions Li Sanjian, and the other by Monk Universe Li Ergou.They helped popularize Mantis Boxing among other people. About two generations later, followers of the two styles began to exchange experience and skills. It was only a little more than one hundred years ago that the two different styles became two independent schools. As time went by, the content, characteristics, technical theory and training methods of Mantis Boxing were enriched.There are now many schools of Mantis Boxing: 7 Star Mantis
PLum Blossom Mantis, Six Conformities ect........

Source:Mantis Boxing
By: Zhang Yuping
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[BeiTangLang]

From my understanding, Mantis was actually a system & was practiced long before Shaolin came into being.
Unfortunently, it also vanished into history to be re-awakened in its second (?) wind by Wong Long.
Ah,..to have a time machine.......................

[northernJump]

In that case how can you be sure that its even the same system ?
Southern mantis bears little resemblence to northern beyond having the same name and a similar creation story ( monk watching mantis fighting etc etc... ) so it could well be the same here.

btw is a an online reference somewhere to this older mantis system

[Young Mantis]

Originally posted by BeiTangLang
From my understanding, Mantis was actually a system & was practiced long before Shaolin came into being.
Unfortunently, it also vanished into history to be re-awakened in its second (?) wind by Wong Long.
Ah,..to have a time machine.......................

Hey BTL,

How do you come to this understanding? Have you seen any documentation that proves this?

[BeiTangLang]

Actual definitive information?? No. Even if I could find the doccuments, I would not be able to read them.
However, looking at references from "legends" as lsted by a few such as, "The Legend Described by the Grandmaster of Six Harmonies Praying Mantis Boxing Ding Zicheng (1880-1956) and first recorded by his disciple Grandmaster Chen Yuntao (1906-1978) in his unpublished materials entitled "Brief Discourse about Praying Mantis Boxing" (First English translation by Ilya Profatilov",
"..."During the Song Dynasty, the famous founder of Tong Bei Boxing style, Han Tong, had a fight with someone named Wang Lang."

"The earliest record of Tongbei in the ancient book was a thousand years ago. In this record, it is mentioned that in the Song Dynasty General Han Tong knew Tongbei Quan. "
ref:http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache...n&ie=UTF-8</a>


-Song Dynasty (souther ref); 420-479 AD
-Shaolin temple (1st) founded in Northern Wei dynasty (northern ref)(386-534), in approx 495 AD.

The referenced founder is still Wang Lang, but the story of him fighting the monks suddenly looses its hold in reality if the dates are correct.

Like I said, its just another version of the story, no more, no less.
(I retract "long before Shaolin" to just before :-) )

[BeiTangLang]

"Many Chinese martial arts historians pinpoint Wang Lang to have lived between the late Ming (1368-1644 AD) and early Qing (1644-1911 AD) dynasties."-ref: Mantis cave, run by Fernando (many thanks for you for maintaining & researching our system as much as you do BTW!).

420-479 A.D. vs 1368-1644 A.D is quite a period of time. I doubt that if the system existed in 420-479, that the system was very well documented by the just forming Shaolin temple as it in itself was not yet an established martial institution. However, a reference to the system I'm sure would have been maintained.

Once again, all personal opinion here with little supporting documentaion, but IMHO, the mantis referenced from the Song Dynasty is more than likely not what we know as mantis now.

Best Wishes to all,
BTL

[MantisifuFW]

seung ga faat,

This is an interesing reference in that it places the art of Tanglang into the hands of Li Sanjian and Li Ergou at about the same time and seems to indicate that it was from the same place, (though it is debatable I guess).

Li Sanjian is the person through which most Qixing Tanglang practitioners trace their line. Li Ergou is also know as Li Bingxiao, the founder of what has become Meihua Tanglang. I am not certain that I would refer to them as monks as does this author but it is entirely possible that she knows things that I have not heard.

It is also interesting that she talks about how the two lines have exchanged information. I have heard as much on the mainland, even to the sharing of sets, though it seems that there is a movement to separate the two styles and to draw more clear distinctions between them.

Interesting perspective,

Steve Cottrell